Is PKI losing its appeal?

The park is not what it used to be. Through KECO and Paramount, many rides have been removed (especially flat rides) without equivalent replacement.

Most of the area theming has been removed in exchange for theming of short-lived movie titles. The post above using the word "sterlized" is a good description. The park used to have a certain FEEL in each area with the area theming, which made it stand above Cedar Point in that aspect. Now it is just slightly above Cedar Point on atmospher and area theming and Cedar Point blows it out of the water as far as ride lineup. International Street and Hanna-Barbera Land still have most of their charm though.

If park attendance is increasing, the capacity definitely is not. Everytime a ride is added, at least one ride is removed. This year 2 rides are being removed for one. Long lines do not equal a pleasant experience. It seems like Kings Island has less to do on each visit.

It is also now home to a collection of rough rollercoasters. Son of Beast, Vortex, Beast, Racer, Adventure Express, and even Reptar are not pleasant rides if you are not in the right seat.

I took my nieces of ages 7 and 11 there this year, neither one of them thought the place was that great or asked to go back. The oldest one hated most of the rollercoasters because of the roughness, and they seemed bored after about 4 hours. Next year we will choose another park.

I will say that they dropped their prices accordingly this year for the type of park experience it now is. One day was $34 online and you could go 2 days for $45 this year. *** Edited 10/18/2004 1:40:35 PM UTC by super7**** *** Edited 10/18/2004 1:41:27 PM UTC by super7****

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TeknoScorpion said:
Jeff, I feel that you had no right what so ever to tell people to stop writing/calling the park, etc. It isn't your place to tell someone what they can't do when they're not on your site.

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So everyone else can say whatever they want, but because big scary Jeff runs a Web site he can't say what he wants? Whatever. I'll tell people whatever I want. Assuming they have a free will, they'll do whatever they want anyway.

The issue in this particular case is certain enthusiasts (I won't name who) have gone out of their way to be a pain in the ass, and those people are associated with the enthusiast community. It goes way beyond the disgruntled customer angle, and because they are who they are, the issue is associated with all of us. That's a problem.

Like it or not, I represent a popular Web site and a club, and with that position I'm going to speak up when people do things that can potentially harm the relationship that the enthusiast community as a whole has with various parks. I'm tired of getting letters from parks about enthusiasts doing unsafe things and e-mail from PR people regarding people demanding this or that from their parks. You've only seen a fraction of this nonsense on here... I could show you a lot more. It's embarrassing.

I bet Sean could back me up on this, but a lot of parks are really uneasy with the enthusiast community in the last year or two, and frankly I don't blame them. The bottom line is that the parks don't need us, and if the community, even if it's a tiny portion of it, continue to be an annoyance or risk to the parks, it's all over. No more events, ERT or perks.

If you want to be a part of the community and foster its success then act like you give a damn and work with the parks instead of against them. We're living in their world, not vice versa. If you have concerns about the way a park operates, complain to them, but don't start a self-serving media circus.

pki losing it's appeal? nope I am going there for the first time next year.... also planned on that trip first stops at geauga, kentucky kingdom and holiday world...and yes i am a single 30 something male so i can disavow being drawn by the family aspects of the park.

And yes I think Jeff is right about if the parks get tired of enthusiasts demanding things they will get tired of it and turn against the enthusiast community and then all the nice perks will disappear. So you might want to check what you say and do if you want all your cushy little things like ERT on that hot new coaster. *** Edited 10/18/2004 5:19:15 PM UTC by dragonoffrost***

Sean and I talked about this last night at the final Eagles flights and he made it extremely clear that the enthusiast community was being watched extremely closely and we found that if there was *any* acting up or problems where security would have to step in or whatever, future park enthusiast events would be cancelled possibly to include the ACE walkback and definitely the planned Coaster Con for 2007. I'm sure BeastBuzz/CBC events would have been in jeopardy as well.

Luckily, everyone was absolutely perfect and I think the posts about having people stay home if they were going to start something and people encouraging a nice farewell party with the PR team that had nothing to do with this decision helped a lot. We had plenty of time to talk in the line and I think if there was any doubt with some people, they changed their minds about protesting in a negative way by the end of the night.

+Danny

Well, I just hope PKI doesn't even think of changing one bit of what Mike Brady designed for them.

... just thought this thread needed some levity at this point, no matter how lame.

P.S. When's the Partridge Family performing there next?

This discussion is very familiar.....

http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=34951

i still have a special place in my heart for pki. i first went there in 1989. i was there this past may and i got to try the beast with it's fin braking system for the first time. i was really impressed. it was the most consistently fast the ride has ever been. it is still a top 10 ride. the beast hasn't lost it's appeal.

Jeff,

You are 100% correct. I know from personally speaking to a few parks that enthusiasts demanding certain "improvements", at times, were getting out of hand.

Take for instance Tomb Raider: The Ride. The very day the ride was announced, there were a couple of crybabies at the park that day that complained heavily to me that this is not what they wanted. They were expecting a huge coaster and thought that "we" deserved it. They planned on letting the park know it was wrong with the new choice. Sorry, it doesn't work out that way. Later that night the park started getting e-mails from people who thought they were crazy for not putting in another coaster. I remember one instance on this board where a kid e-mailed the park in a negative manner and posted his response to a thread. Parks tolerated as much as they could.

Then, last year, one person decided to do something so stupid, it would change our relationships with parks for good. Our relationships, (and I mean "our" as in enthusiasts as a whole) was in jeopardy more so than it was a couple of years back. Never has the saying, "they don't need us" more apparent as events that were already planned were cancelled. Parks that used to enjoy talking to enthusiasts decided they no longer felt the need to talk with any of us. There were parks that didn't hear all the details of what happened last year, yet didn't want to work on an event or anything because we were associated with something horrible. Would you blame them?

To add insult to injury, a few other enthusiasts still acted like they were invincible, but in the end, they had to learn the hard way by getting banned from parks and clubs. You think that park’s don’t have the power to ban us? You are wrong. Very wrong indeed.

Late last year, a lot of damage control was done from many different angles. A lot of parks know we aren’t all bad, yet, it only takes a few bad things for parks to cut off everything to us. Getting complaints from enthusiasts who think they are entitled to something is just one way of screwing up what hard work that has been done from people that actually care.

“So what? Who cares about relationships?”

“Who cares about events or any other perks?”

“Why should I have to be quiet and not let the park know what I am thinking?”

There are a lot of people that don’t just get the whole relationship thing. It’s because of relationships that we are allowed to have events and all kinds of other perks. If you don’t care about them, that’s fine, but please do most of us a favor and not ruin it for the rest of us” Last night, as Danny mentioned, everyone acted great. I spoke to park representatives last night and they were more than happy with the way everyone acted. The weekend before they were a little concerned as there were some comments being thrown around that there were going to be a few bad protesters in the bunch. Luckily those folks stayed home and everything worked out as planned. Yes, people from the park read the PKI threads and probably noted every comment. Luckily things weren’t all that bad.

I do think everyone has a right to voice an opinion. While Jeff may point out there has been a lot of complaining on here recently, I also notice that things haven’t gotten totally out of hand. Yes, a few people on here have voiced complaints to the park that have been less than favorable (at least I think so) but I know the majority of complaints has been fairly mild.

The whole argument of “this park has this ride why can’t we get a similar ride” doesn’t really work IMO. For those that haven’t noticed, PKI isn’t like any other park. It doesn’t work like other parks. If the park thought it would be wise to put in another record breaking coaster instead of a new family ride, then they would have done the research to back it up. The latest research showed a new record breaker wasn’t what was needed. While the “est” titles may work for Cedar Point, it may backfire at PKI. Do you know why? It’s because they are a different park. Why do you think one of the reasons Geauga Lake is marketed the way it is? How well would two “est” parks operate in the same region under the same company?

Over the past two years I have learned tons of valuable information on what makes parks work. I have enjoyed learning and can now see why parks do like working with us, as well as why enthusiasts like working with parks. I also learned how fine the line is in regards to complaints, and constructive criticism, and just flat out negativity that has no purpose other than do damage. In other words, please think before you complain as you may not realize what damage your complaint can have as it is read. Like Jeff said, if people start getting too annoying, and you wonder why there aren’t any events or perks left, just thank the people who don’t care.

I was very proud to be a part of the crowd that showed up at PKI yesterday. I thought it was the perfect example of people coming together to do what we do best. Having fun. Sure, the mood was pretty sad as each hour went by, but the way everyone kind of felt the same way played a big part in why the evening went down well. If more and more people acted this way, more and more parks would be willing to allow us to do events among many other things.

Do I think PKI is losing its appeal?

No way. If anything, I have been enjoying my visitis more and more. The last 3 Sundays have been spent at that park. I can't remember the last time I have done that. I may not agree with the removal the Flying Eagles, but I find I can enjoy my time at the park in other ways. Despite what some may say, I find the park to offer many fun things to do.

-Sean

Long time reader first time poster...

This all boils down to opinions. I grew up with KI then PKI and since my relocation to new york city I miss it terribly. But I have memories invested in it. When I go to other parks like Disney, Universal, Cedar Point, Kennywood, in all their grandness, charm, theming, landscaping, and whatever, they don't have the magic that I experience at my home park. And it's not measured by inversion count. I'm sure all of you can relate. Every park makes bad decisions. But does anyone honestly think a someone like Jeff Siebert sits around and plots the demise of one of the largest seasonal theme parks in the nation? Every decision is made in good faith...or good reason.

Does a chef not have to break a few eggs to make an omelet?

Do you not have to spend money to make money?

PKI is in transition to become something pretty spectacular. It's going to go through some akward stages. It's going to take a while.
Rome wasn't built in a day...

If PKI's appeal and the reason you buy a season pass to the park lies within one flat ride, that's sad in itself. I've been to two coaster events at the park this year and I don't know anyone there that went to the park exclusively for the Eagles or would have been able to admit at the time that the Flyers would break the park for them. I had some of the best rides ever on Beast, Delirium, SOB, and The Racer during those events plus all the extras were worth the extra event price alone and that *only* includes my mention of a few rides. Some people have said that they're not going to buy a season pass anymore or go back to the park after last night and I'm not really sure how to react to that. Dare I say that even losing Magnum wouldn't be the end of the world for Cedar Point...

+Danny, not a very good enthusiasssst, I apologize to my fanboys, I have failed you ;)

In the end PkI's number one goal is to make a good profit, and latly focusing on the family market is doing wonders for them, and making a good profit. Plus their really good at making a family/kids area, its amasing, thats why theyv dominated that category of the golden tickets for the last four years and will most likley continue to do so for quite some time. So I cant blame a park for focusing on what they do best, cause not only are they good at it, but it brings in the MONEY. PKI has established itself as a family park in the past years, and the numbers seem to show that the public loves it. So why complain considering it still has some great thrill rides. The Beast is one of the greatest and most unique wooden coasters ever built. Delerium is great, Drop Zone is my all time favorite drop ride, Flight of fear, packs quite a punch, vortex is one of the better Arows Iv ever been on. Son of Beast is a great ride if your not sitting over a wheel, and if your in the second to last seat its absalutly amazing, and the park is continuing to improve the ride. PKI is focusing on the family aspect more, because it works for them better, but they still have plenty of great thrill rides. All in all PKI has a great WHOLe park experience, something that makes it great. CP is about thrill rides, PKI is about a WHOLE park experience the whole family can enjoy. Family is the market PKI is after and CP and most big parks market for the thrill seekers. Both CP and PKI are doing great at getting the market their aiming for. *** Edited 10/19/2004 1:11:43 AM UTC by RockingRollerFarm***

I don't think it's losing it's appeal at all, but then again I have better things to do worry about the Flyers being moved or whether PKI is going to get my *dream coaster*. Don't get me wrong, it's pefectly OK to voice your feelings about these things, but ONLY in a professional, polite manner.

We all have things we would "like" to see at parks but it's not the end of the world if you don't like what the park offers. In other words.......IT'S JUST A HOBBY!

I have been loving PKI since I was 10 years old and will ALWAYS love it, but that's just me. I am easily amused and cherish ALL aspects of any park I have visited. In other words, I don't take them for granted and appreciate everything they deliver. I am not a huge fan of Tomb Raider, but instead of complaining like an ass to these parks I just choose not to ride it and move on to something else. Complainers just really irritate me. If I have a bad experience at a park I will bring it up to customer relations, not diss the park.

People are STILL forgetting that not only do a lot of park staff READ these forums but it only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us. Whenever I hear about some idiot making a scene or complaining endlessly about the most trivial things in the world it makes me sick, and I don't associate myself with them. I won't name names either. ;-)

I agree with Sean and Jeff 100%. Yes, some parks HAVE banned certain individuals for a variety of things. Parks are a LOT more aware of these things and do not tolerate the crap like they used to.......whether it's unbuckling a seat belt or harrassing/threatening another enthusiast or the park itself. It's behavior that should never be tolerated. I have seen way too much of it. You learn who the psychos and tools are very fast, especially nowadays. I think most people can figure it out.

I remember Coastermania last year and how many people were VERY rude about Dragster being down. It's was like they thought the park was doing this on purpose. I even heard some VERY rude comments as Brian was handing out exit passes for Dragster. It's like, WTF? GET OVER IT! The funny thing is, most of these people who were complaining were locals. Go figure! lol. At any rate, the park didn't deserve to be ridiculed over something that was out of their control. Luckily, all the enthusiast events I have been to this year have been amazing. No issues or people making a scene.

That's my rambling for this evening. :-D

I love PKI (and Cedar Point) and will continue to visit. Those of you who are disenchanted with whatever can just stay home. :-D Voice your opinions but don't be an arse.......bottom line. It's not all about you anyway. ;-)

Danny,

I think Dorney is underrated. Bill (Gator), Frank, and I went there the day after PPP and Bill had lost his Knott's season pass somewhere in his house after the Hurricanes.

Anyway, we visited customer relations (so I could get my free ticket) and Bill explained the situation and asked if they could "look him up" or call someone.....to verify that he was a CF passholder. Well, they told him that there was no way they could verify something like this and they ended up giving him a ticket anyway.

AMAZING customer service!!!!!!! Rocking!

-Tina

*** Edited 10/20/2004 1:35:11 AM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***

You know what would automatically put PKI back in my good graces??? Take those antique cars and build us a ride themed on the Godfather.

What really is losing appeal are these meaningless threads.

If it's so meaningless, don't participate in them.

Simple as that.

My former supervisor at work asked me this year as to what amusement park to take their young son to so that they could see how he would act when they took him to Disney World. This would end up being their first outing at an amusement park as a family. Out of the three main parks in Ohio, I told them PKI because of the large amount of kid's attractions. They had a great time and highly enjoyed Boomerang Bay.

Now I'm a single adult and love PKI as it is. Delirium and the Beast alone are enough to get me down there and enjoy it. Every park is going to do something that will irk somebody and question the thinking behind the park's decisions.

The funny thing about all of this is that some people complained as to when PKI would build their next coaster. Guess what, you're getting one yet it's going to mean the removal of two family attractions. It would be nice for PKI to up their flat ride count as there aren't too many left but for now, I'm satisfied with what they have thus far.

X Factor

Me too. Now take away my Delirium and/or Drop Zone THEN we will have a problem. Kidding of course. ;-)

-Tina

On topic, I say no way is it losing it's appeal. I would love for them to build a hundred coasters of every possible kind, but I am a nut that way. The average person that falls in that 3.3 million doesn't exactly share my convictions in this area. There are many things I disagree with, but overall PKI is lucky to have management that listens to customers. They have business sense to not follow the herd of amusement parks and go their own way. They add attractions based upon feedback of a diverse group of people, they do not cater to what "we" whine about, but they go out of their way to appease our grumblings.

If I ran PKI, I would do things differently, but I know I could then come here and there would still be 100 people that moan about what they think should be done.

I visit many parks every year, which is really not out of the ordinary for our group, but I visit none more than PKI. Some parks really have started losing their appeal to me, especially the Florida parks. I have lost all interest in all Six Flags parks completely. They are the definition of piss poor. PKI works to refresh it's image without reinventing the wheel. And they succeed.

Could they do things better? Yes. So could each and everyone of us in the things that we do. Make your suggestions through the guest feedback system, and if you still aren't happy, stay at home and build your own park in RCT3. It'll keep the lines shorter for me!

I think that the park is still nice in alot of aspects. Just go to the back of the park. think about all the trees they have leading on the trail of the lagoon and things like that. Also the Beast is set directly in woods. The concrete thing is a little disturbing. I mean it does take away from the natural surroundings a bit. The International area, has alot of concrete, but it more than makes up for it with the fountain and the eitfel tower in the middle, plus the stores shops and everything else there.