Is Cedar Fair turning into Six Flags?

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olympic10086 said:
"There is currently ONE roller coaster called MILLENNIUM FORCE...and it is the TALLEST, FASTEST, STEEPEST roller coaster in NORTH AMERICA...PERIOD!"

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While I disagree with the majority of your post (save the ROI comment which seems to be spot on) I do want to take the time to address this last claim about Millie. Even if you were to discount Superman: The Escape (which *IS* the tallest, fastest, steepest coaster in NA) and any other shuttle coaster for that matter (confining our selves to only full-circuit coasters), Millie STILL wouldn't be the steepest coaster in NA, that title would go to a *little*, yet Xtreme, coaster down in Doswell, VA: Hypersonic: Xtreme Launch Coaster.
lata,
jeremy
--Chigity-check ya' self before ya' wreck ya' self

I met one nasty op at Cedar Point, and she even had a smile on her face. All I know is where I live, I have to drive at least 6, 7, 8 hours to get anywhere, and when you go somewhere and they take all your money and act disguested by you, it sucks. Six Flags does try, there's alot of people working there, it's like at a mall or something like McDonalds you know, we all know. They obviously make fair decisions when it comes to placing clones, although when the science comes down to it, they know the variables to input.

I did see Knott's Berry Farm products (Snoopy things) in CP gift shops, you could say that's like the Batman Superman merchandise or something. They can turn into SF for that purpose for all I care because California's out of the question for me.

But I am poor, if I meet a person, ride op, whoever at the park, if they do something for me, I come back at the end of the day and tip them. I know this sounds stupid, I don't do alot of extra things in the parks, I'm not very social, but if you make me a kick butt caricature or take care of my dog or are continuisly nice to me, I'm showing you my appreciation, IMO it makes people more "artisan" in what they do, and no they don't do bad work if they think they're not getting tipped (ha), but I've NEVER tipped or shaken anyones' hand at "my" Six Flags. I've also never tipped any coaster ops because that's rude except at the small parks, where an op is forced to look at me for hours while no one else is there.

MF wasn't just built to break a record? Give me a break. Nobody in their right mind would've built something so tall if it weren't to break records. I mean come on, it wasn't a sure bet that the GP wouldn't even ride it. As for marketing, you'd better believe that CP markets to California and beyond. Ever watch a program on amusement parks/coasters on the TLC/Discover Channel? Notice that almost everyone has a CP coaster? Seen the listing of coasters for this years programs? MF, Magnum, and Raptor are in the listings. That's what I call advertising.

That's not Cedar Point marketing, that's a documentary initiated by the production company. The park doesn't approach them and say, "Hey, can you do a show about us?" Trust me, their marketing folks have a hard enough time just keeping up with local media.

The Force wasn't built just to break a record, no. It was built for other reasons as well. From our interview with Kinzel:

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"We sat down and put a pencil to it as to what the cost would be and how much attendance it would have to generate. Again, it was a business driven decision and not really an ego driven decision. It was really driven on the ROI. I hate to keep using that phrase but that’s really what we use a lot… how many people a 300-foot coaster would draw to the park, how much money they would spend and how long it would take to pay that coaster off.

The other thing that applies is you just can’t put a dollar figure on everything. It was time that Cedar Point needed another premier ride. It needed the best ride and really something to market off of, and we thought Millennium Force would do that for us."

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

Precisely! Getting something to market off (like the world's longest/fastest/tallest/sidewaysiest/AFLACingest...) is great, but Kinzel's quote there puts it all in perspective. It's all about adding up numbers on the balance sheet.

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"Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"
Dr. Leonard McCoy

Sorry about that.

And no, Cedar Fair is not turning into Six Flags any more than Target is turning into Wal*Mart. Different companies, same approach, everybody's a winner.




*** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 5/18/2001. *** *** This post was edited by slithernoggin on 5/18/2001. ***

I still think that if you put almost any of the Six Flags parks next to Dorney, WOF, or VF!, there's probobly a much higher chance of someone in the GP going to SF over one of the three. It's excellent marketing for them to add the Six Flags name. They see huge attendance increases and for the better(definitely for us) they keep us riding the biggest coasters and even keeping many of the parks they buy alive. On the coater issue, would you rather ride S:ROS or Magnum, Raging Bull or Wild Thing, Titan or Mamba, Nitro or Steel Force. I'll take great coasters and employees "just doing their job" over ok coasters and nice employees anytime. I've been to CP 4 times(5th time tomarrow! :)), Dorney once, and KBF twice(probobly the three best). I've been to SFGAm 3 times, SFKK and SFWoA twice, and SFNE once. I did not notice a difference at all in employees. Both parks' were decently clean, both had their share of great and not-so-great coasters. Why I like SF a little more: overall better coasters, more coasters, theming, good admission/season pass prices, decent shows, and free waterparks. Even if CF had much better employees, wouldn't you still want all that above? As long as it's safe of course...and everythings open... ;)

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PKI-Wooden, Helix, and Kiddie Coaster Capital of the World!
And I LOVE CP, so Get Up Out of My Azz About It! :)

KK: I'm like you in a lot of ways, I think more highly of the SF brand of park than I do the Paramount or Cedar Fair parks. Primarily because I think that the Six Flags Theming adds a lot to the experience. I dont get all giddy of Daffy Duck anymore, but I see the kids that do and that helps set a mood for their parks. And witht he exception of Shockwave @ SFGAm there is at least an attempted theme for their coasters, which is better to me than no theme at all (others will disagree)

Where I have to part company with you is with the employess thing. Yes, the difference b/w CF & SF employees in my experience have been negligible. But a truely kick*****squad can really turn a park into something special. I would not have ever said this if it had not been for Holiday World & SRM. I was wrong and I now admitt that. I mean it's good and all that they have a couple of great woodies, but even though Chang is a great stand-up, I am in no hurry to get back to SFKK. HW OTOH, because of their extrem hospitality, has me already scheming on getting back there. So employees *can* make a difference (in the case of SF v. CF, it does not).
lata,
jeremy
---YES! I have seen the light!!!

The only parks I have truly seen an employee difference would be WDW, DL, BGT, BGW, IOA, USF, and HW. Otherwise I will agree that CF employees in general aren't as bad as some at SF can get. I've never had an encounter with an employee that would even slightly ruin my day, but I'll take your word for it. If I want some decent coasters and a few enthusiastic people to kiss my azz I'll go to CF. If I want theming and excellent coasters, I'll go to SF("Bigger, Faster...Closer!"). If I want theming, great coasters, superb atmosphere and people to kiss my azz, I'll go to IOA or WDW or HW or BG...

I prefer the last choice but I really can't get to Disney everyday. I'll have to wait a couple months for that lovely little trip... :)

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Everything above was my opinion.If you disagree,please respond in an intelligent fashion.But before you post,I warn you that some people say I'm just too smart to understand. Please take that into consideration. ;)


*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 5/18/2001. *** *** This post was edited by Koaster King on 5/18/2001. ***

Who cares. Two different companies, but i'll go to all of their parks.

me too timbobary, me too...

If you wondered where your Cedar Fair dividends were, apparently they were being saved for these purchases. In general, Six Flags stock has been doing somewhat better than the other parks' (I watch this stuff, although I can't afford to do much about it), so possibly CF thought more additions a la SF style would bring them similar gains?

However, I hope CF doesn't decide to do the abysmal generic parks SF does. The more Kentucky Kingdom looks like Magic Mountain -- that is, the more Six Flags Kentucky looks like Six Flags California -- the more I know I'll only have to bother visiting one of the two. (As it is now, I only have to buy souvenirs at one of them, as they've gone to generic Six Flags logo items. Ooops -- they don't want my money, I take it?)

Not much at Worlds of Fun looks like Knotts -- and that's the way I like it!

Cedar Fair dividends are in my bank account... lots of them. 8% back from what you spent on the stock ain't bad!

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com

I don't think you'll have to worry about SFKK being anything like SFMM. They don't have a single thing pulling me towards that park, and they never will.

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Koaster King said:
"On the coater issue, would you rather ride S:ROS or Magnum, Raging Bull or Wild Thing, Titan or Mamba, Nitro or Steel Force."

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Actually, I think you'd be surprised. I don't think this battle is quite that lopsided. In fact, it might favor CF:LP. Many would still take Magnum over any other hypers, S:ROS included. I'll give you that Raging Bull walks all over Wild Thing, but Mamba and Titan maybe closer than you think. Airtime lovers, like myself, might just prefer Mamba (I've yet to ride Titan, but I did ride Goliath. I loved Goliath, but I liked Mamba and Magnum better). And Nitro looks awesome, but how quickly we forget that Steel Force is Amusement Today's #4 steel.

But back to the subject. I'm not arguing that SF parks have more coasters on average, but the reason for SFI's success isn't better parks--it's tremendous marketing. Like you said, everyone recognizes the name SF. However, I think we don't give the GP enough credit sometimes. Sure the name Six Flags will get them there once, but if they're treated poorly, have to wait in line all day, and have to look at trash all day, will they come back? And the GP doesn't spend all day on the coasters like we enthusiasts, so they would notice things like staff friendliness more. The spend much more times in the shops, stores, and restaurants, where direct interaction with employees comes into play. I think that while the CF:LP parks may not have the name draw of SFI, they will have more repeat business because of their attention to detail. People don't like to drop $40 to get into a park only to feel like they're unwanted. I hope SF will realize this and promote customer service more at their parks (cough *SFSTL* cough).

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Mamba--One of the Tallest, Longest, Fastest Roller Coasters in the World

Adam Rentchler *** This post was edited by The Rentch on 5/19/2001. ***

Great Point, The Rench! I had a terrible experience at SFWOA last year and vowed NEVER to go to another Six Flags park...I know that I may be missing out on some great coasters, but I was not happy at the customer service..

mikey