Idlewild's Flyers NOT entirely Larson

Monday, May 28, 2007 8:39 PM
I don't claim to be a Flying Scooters expert but I know what a Bisch-Rocco looks like having ridden at least 4 that I know of and I have ridden the Larson at Hershey. I do not have my pics up as we just got back from our Idlewild/Kennywood trip but the framework on the Idlewild Flyer is Bisch-Rocco, pure and simple. I believe the 10 tubs are from Larson, they do not look like the tubs on your standard Bisch-Rocco. This leads me to believe they have resurrected the Kennywood Flyer but ordered new tubs from Larson. Again, i could be way off base on this but as soon as I saw it my jaw hit the ground and I felt like I was staring at the Flyers at KG. They had the framework up but no wires attached to it and all ten tubs were just sitting around the work site. The ride is scheduled to open on June 2nd.

Tom

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Monday, May 28, 2007 10:04 PM
I was pretty sure the Kennywood Flyer is now at Lake Compounce
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Monday, May 28, 2007 10:35 PM
Idlewild's Flying Aces is not used.
Idlewild's Blog states it was constructed by Premier Rides, Inc.

I'm a rides manager at the park and know they have been working really hard getting it open. A part needed sent back and other events happened but it should be ready by Saturday. The park is closed Tues-Fri this week so it should give them time to focus on that.

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Monday, May 28, 2007 11:10 PM
So Mr. Rides Maager.....how about that snapping policy? ;) Pretty please? :)

I am curious about this set of flyers as well since Larson does not advertise a 10-tub model and several people seem to think Premiere is just brokering the deal for Larson. Perhaps Premiere has come out with their own model?

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Monday, May 28, 2007 11:20 PM
Kennywoods flyers are KNOEBELS FLYERS! For the last time :)

The new flyers are at Idlewild are just that. NEW and if you think about it, How else would one build a structure for ten tubs?

Chuck, who hopes many parks get them and alow them to be ridden as they can be. The original ride has lasted over 70 years.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:50 AM
Kennywood's old flyers are Knoebel's flyers. Kennywood's latest flyers are at Lake Compounce, like John said.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:11 AM
lol
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:55 AM
Ok, sorry for starting this thread, my memory is shot. I just was astounded seeing a Flyer that LOOKED like the Flyers from Bisch-Rocco. I was not expecting to see that at all.

Tom

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 9:41 AM
It's ok Tom. You can never have too many flyer threads. :)
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:06 AM
Actually I was kinda suprised when Larson came out with a model that couldn't sustain the forces the ride exerts. They'd have even been better off making the Eight tub Bisch Rocco model than the ones they came up with.

At least they got the tubs right.

Chuck

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:24 AM
If you're going to re-engineer something, you should make it better than before, right? ;) I have a feeling, Larson engineered their flyers to be less likely to snap, hence the much heavier tubs. Unless you know what you're doing or the wind is just right, I think a rider is much less likely to accidentally snap them as compared to the lightweight old school flyers that snap without anyone riding them. For me, the added weight of the Larson tubs makes it much easier to spin around.

Anyhow, they still should have IMO made the ride sturdier so snapping won't harm it and then the ride could be as wild as the rider wants it to be. The funny thing is, on their website, Larson sort of suggests snapping when talking about how an experienced rider can get a very thrilling ride.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:13 PM
I swear Premier took the blueprints for the framework straight from Bisch-Rocco. Looking at both the Larson and Premier sites my memory must really be shot. I cannot find a picture of the Hershey Flyer but I don't remember it looking anything like the ones on the Larson site. Once again I must be cracking up and wasting bandwidth. If nothing else the ride looked like it would be a lot of fun and at 37 MPH how can you go wrong??

Tom

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:00 PM
The website for Premier Rides lists a flying scooter and shows a picture of the scooter from Paramount's Great America. I'm pretty sure that is a Larson ride. And the description only mentions an 8 tub model. There must be some relationship between Premier and Larson, and who knows what is going on with Idlewild's ride.

For the record, The Larson scooter at Camden Park snaps pretty easily.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:56 PM
I know I am going to take a hit for asking this question, but I have to know. Can someone descibe to me "snaping a flyer"? What does it feel like from inside, what does it look like when watching, and how is it done? Also, why is there a big to-do about ops not allowing it?

Any answers will be appreciated, and next time I am at knoebels (which will be soon, I am getting married there in july) I will be watching the Flyers!

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:03 PM
Snapping the flyers...means you stall out your tub so the cables become slack, and then when the cables tighten up again, you get a jolt or "snap" causing varying degrees of airtime and a "cer-chunk!" sound.

Snapping causes additional wear and tear on the ride and scares some people, so many parks frown on it, but Knoebels is usually THE place for snapping.

To achieve a stall, you want to get your tub to soar up and then dive back down faster than the ride is turning. As you're coming back down you turn your sail to block the airflow and stall out.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:05 PM
"Snap" really isn't a good way to describe it. What people do is maneuver the sail in such a way to get the tub to stall and create some slack in the supporting cables. When the sweep catches up with the stalled tub, it yanks it fairly violently and shakes the tub and ride structure.

I used to think that the "snap" was something like a whip cracking. That kind of noise doesn't really happen.

I can only assume that parks don't like this because of potential extra stress on the cables and structure resulting in increased maintanance. There could also be a perception that riding this way is not safe because of the violent forces. (Has there ever been a case of a tub coming close to dumping the rider over the side?)

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:16 PM
I'm sure many riders have gotten the feeling they were in danger, but I've never heard of any "accidents" like that. My tub collided with another tub on the flyers at PGA recently, but it didn't make the news. ;) On the same day I saw a kid come within inches of smacking into the center column of the ride...and he wasn't even snapping.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:29 PM
actually, You get the tub to dive faster than the cables are rotating. The trick is basically making a straight line out of a circular path across the bottom of your swing.

Chuck, who doubts snapping has much effect on a properly constructed ride. PKI's flyers were from Coney Cincinnati 1937 and it was reported then in the book (Welcome to Coney Island) that riders could get from the most relaxing to the most scary rides you could want based on your experience. It was also a favorite past time to watch.

The rides still operates today at Carowinds!

Chuck

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:41 PM
Not an expert by any means, but I think (most) parks are more concerned with the sails than the cables. Many people think in order to get the tubs to dive or soar, they have to whip the sail back and forth rapidly and sharply. Doing that repeatedly will damage the sails.

Maybe there could be some eventual wear on the cables, but steel cable is much stronger than the sails.

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Tuesday, May 29, 2007 5:45 PM
Interesting. I also only have a little first hand experince with Flying scooters and am far from an expert. But, I would think that regularly greasing the hinges would solve that problem. The 'sails' are steel also. I can't imagine people turning them to hard to damage them. Unless, you mean they are throwing them all the way in one direction and slaming them as far as they will go. But, in that case, I would think that the ride-op would ask them to stop.
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