I-305 major change?

Friday, November 5, 2010 12:37 PM
Jason Hammond's avatar

The new restraints may remove the ability to float out of your seat. But, the negative G's are still there. I'll take the comfort of the new restraints over the floating ability of the old restraints every time.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:01 PM

I see your point but I would compare the old restraints to lapbars and the new ones to OTSR's if that makes any sense. The old ones made no contact with your upper body at all (proving how worthless the neck things are) but the new ones touch you all the way down and pin you to the seat. They are both inferior to lapbars (hello Formula Rossa).

I'm just ecstatic that something close to the old i305 might be returning. I was getting really sick of a lot of people pretending like going 80mph was just as great as 94-96.

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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:10 PM
delan's avatar

(I305 is my new Nitro - any chance to point out the "meh" is taken advantage of)

Such a coaster bully ;)

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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:39 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

The old ones made no contact with your upper body at all

That depends on your size. I've come into contact with the OTSRs on the 4 Intamin coasters with that type of restraint that I've ridden. Granted, the only one that 'bothered' me were the ones on Ka...which supposedly are the ones that came off of I305.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:47 PM
Raven-Phile's avatar

I only touch them if I lean forward into them, and I've never had much of an issue with them, but I could see the soft vests being an improvement, in general.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:53 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

Yeah, I'd like to try out the soft vests. I definitely had them touching on Maverick, Fahrenheit, and Storm Runner. Not that it in anyway hurt or detracted from those amazing rides. But given the choice, I'd rather try them with the soft restraints.

As for Ka, which had new restraints that seemed to come from I305 (as they were the I305 colors, and were molded in the way I305's were, and not the way the other coasters or older Ka restraints were), they dug into my shoulder and collar bones. Granted, I was being flung foward at 128 mph, so I figure that is why that one was so different.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 2:57 PM

@Tek, I think you're drawing too hard of a line. I don't think the park necessarily deemed the ride unsafe, but if half the train blacks out with some amount of regularity on that first turn, that's probably not the experience they want their riders to have.

I actually give CF/Intamin (probably more the former) some credit for being unsatisfied with the trim "solution" and doing something about actually improving the ride experience of their multi-million dollar, star attraction.

On a separate note - I've heard numerous reports that I305v2.0 still had blackout/greyout issues, the logic being that the slower speed through the turn didn't reduce Gs *that* much, and by going slower through the turn it noticeably increased the duration, as well as lessening the air on hill 2. That makes me think that we won't simply see a widening of the turn and a removal of the trims... you'd still have the same increased duration problem.

I suspect that we'll see something a little more radical, perhaps indeed something like MF's overbank or, if they keep it low and fast, maybe do a quick straightening out/air pop/continue the turn like what happens immediately after hill 2.

We'll see though, looking forward to following this (re)construction.


Bill
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Friday, November 5, 2010 3:17 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

I don't think the park necessarily deemed the ride unsafe, but if half the train blacks out with some amount of regularity on that first turn, that's probably not the experience they want their riders to have.

Oh, I agree that they didn't deem it unsafe, I was responding to the person that said this was like taking the roll off Maverick. My point was that in the Maverick case, they made a decision to take that section out of the ride, and if it was indeed due to forces, they did it before they even let the public on.

But that still doesn't change the fact that other than enthusiasts speculation (based on what? I've yet to hear anyone say they've heard a rumor from the park that there were indeed any problems with riders and the forces on the coaster), there isn't any evidence they're doing this to reduce forces on the riders.

And since there are at least 2 other coasters out there notorious for helices that cause people to black out, I just don't see why they would spend all this money on that if the ride operates safely and is living up to it's purpose of attracting new people and keeping others coming back (and I've yet to hear anyone say the ride is a dud on that end).

Basically, coaster geeks have said since the ride opened that the forces in the first turn were very intense, and they're surprised that the GP can sustain them (which is odd, I wasn't aware enthusiast DNA was so different), yet there are other coasters and rides (mission space anyone?) out there with forces that are just as intense where parks haven't tried to tame the forces. From those comments, people automatically assume this is being done in response to forces on the riders.

When in reality, we have heard reports, rumors, and comments about the ride having downtime related to wheel melting issues, which could become a potentially costly problem for the park and/or Intamin. Logically, with the information we have, I'm just curious as to why people are blaming this on some preconceived notion that the ride is too intense for riders, and not because of the fact that there are mechanical issues with the wheels.

Why create a problem to explain something when there is a simpler explination, based on the information available?

Last edited by Tekwardo, Friday, November 5, 2010 3:19 PM

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Friday, November 5, 2010 3:23 PM
CoasterDemon's avatar

Ohh... simpler times. Magic Mountains Revolution at full-throttle; bouncy hills and lateral-filled twists and turns. Pacing too! All with minimal to no-pain (save for the inexperience rider who would 'hit' the side of the train while entering a curve). And you weren't pinned to the seat!

I know I know... the new mega monster coasters (I'm thinking the new Intamins as well as Voyage) are stunning; an athletic experience someone said above - but just a different experience.


Billy
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Friday, November 5, 2010 3:42 PM

Tekwardo said:

And since there are at least 2 other coasters out there notorious for helices that cause people to black out

I'll demonstrate my somewhat limited knowledge...Don't get to do that too often!

Tek, which two coasters are you referring to? Curious.

The only two I've ever grayed out on were Nitro (although not always) and Tennessee Tornado (loop, not helix.)


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Friday, November 5, 2010 3:47 PM
Tekwardo's avatar

Titan & Goliath, both hypercoasters by Giovanola. Definitely up there with the most intense forces I've ever felt on a coaster (and this was on a rainy, cold, 40 degree weather day in the morning during ERT, so I don't even know if it was going at the same speed it normally would have). And there has been years of discussion on there on Buzz (and around the net).

Granted, I havne't been able to compare as I've yet to ride I305. For anyone who has ridden both, is the turnaround that much more forceful on 305 than on either Titan or Goliath? I know 2 people that said they were comparable.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 4:21 PM
Vater's avatar

RollrCoastrCrazy said:
(Formula Rossa is running about 20-30 mph slower than designed right now because of the same issue)

Source?

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Friday, November 5, 2010 4:49 PM
SFoGswim's avatar

Tekwardo said:


yet there are other coasters and rides (mission space anyone?) out there with forces that are just as intense where parks haven't tried to tame the forces.

This was probably not a great example to pick as Disney did respond to user complaints about the forces and now runs have the ride stationary. No, they didn't slow the still-spinning half down, but the change is still a change.

Also, it's true that we don't quite know if it was a problem with the trains or a problem with guests, but does it matter? Just because no park has changed the physical layout of a coaster due to guest complaints doesn't mean it can't happen. Obviously KD was shooting for the moon with this installation and perhaps they've realized that, in order for it to be a flagship ride that draws people for hundreds of miles, it needs to change.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 4:54 PM

The difference b/t I-305 and any other roller coaster that causes blackouts is that I-305 is at a CF park. CF doesn't want to be dealing with this. Have you ever noticed how they tame like everything down(sky scraper). Yes MF is known to do it but at a much smaller scale.


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Friday, November 5, 2010 5:22 PM

I was graying out more often than not on version 2.0 in the turn. The restraints were fine. The trims they weren't.

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Friday, November 5, 2010 7:34 PM

Vater said:

RollrCoastrCrazy said:
(Formula Rossa is running about 20-30 mph slower than designed right now because of the same issue)

Source?

Speed of train vs. shape of track & hills based on the forward & reverse POV?

Don't know if I'd say 20-30 mph slower, but the track shaping and banking indicate to me that the train spends the majority of the post-first-hill ride at below the design speed. It is pure speculation on my part, but it is at least based on educated observation.


Bill
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Friday, November 5, 2010 7:39 PM

I don't have a direct resource but when you watch the video everything from the twist at the top of the first trimmed hill, to the turn banking, to the rise and dive into/out of each hill look like they should be taken at much higher speeds than they are. It's the same awkward feeling you get while riding 80mph i305, "uhhmmm why are we leaning over slightly instead of being totally pinned down?"

EDIT: Also when was the last time you rode an Intamin that hit the final brakes with 2 train lengths of extra space left. The train is stopped so quickly by the final set that it appears it takes quite a while for it to roll down the rest of the brake run. Most every other Intamin ride cuts the braking distance pretty close to the limit, NEVER twice as long as it has to be.

Last edited by RollrCoastrCrazy, Friday, November 5, 2010 7:40 PM
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Friday, November 5, 2010 9:59 PM
Vater's avatar

BBSpeed26 said:
It is pure speculation on my part

RollrCoastrCrazy said:
I don't have a direct resource

Ok, just checking. I thought there was something other than a couple POVs that confirmed not only the speed, but the reason for it.

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Sunday, November 7, 2010 5:23 PM
Acoustic Viscosity's avatar

IMO when you first hit that turn, it doesn't feel anywhere near as intense as everyone makes it out to be. But the duration is so long that just as you're exiting the turn and thinking you're in the clear, the gray-out sets in. It slowly sneaks up on you, where as Titan and Goliath attack with more ferocity.

And for the record, I have skydived also and i305 was still a lame ride for me and I rode it before the changes. It had the greatest first drop ever, but that was it.


AV Matt
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Sunday, November 7, 2010 8:20 PM
CoasterDiscern's avatar

Back in August of this year, I had the opportunity to get two rides in on Millennium Force. First ride was in the front seats, and the second ride was in the back seats. At the bottom of the three hundred foot drop I didn't experience any type of greying out when my friend and I rode the front, however that was not the case the second time when we rode the back. I personally experienced some very real and unwanted greying out when I rode the back, and I didn't feel back to normal until after the first airtime hill. I personally cant really imagine what intimidator would be like given the sustained G-forces on the turn, and not pulling out as quickly as MF. At the same time though, I wouldn't want the ride to be less intense because thats what makes the ride so amazing. I think that as we age and get older, our bodies experience biological changes, and that maybe our tolerance to the elements of a roller coaster are not as great. Just something to consider.

Last edited by CoasterDiscern, Sunday, November 7, 2010 8:23 PM
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