How High Can We Get??

Well it really depends on how much you smoke and whether it has the little red fibers in it. ;-)

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"Villain-Once You Drop, The Fun Don't Stop!"~SFWoA Rules In 2002~With SFWoA ANYTHING Is Possible!

No input on the Terminal Velocity thing, but as far as launches go - I'd say we can go much faster.

I say this because of one thing that comes to mind...Drag Racing.

I'm hardly a fan of the sport, but don't the long skinny cars (again, I'm not a fan, I don't know the terminology here) do the quarter mile in under 5 seconds? That's fast!

According to my calculations a quarter mile in 5 seconds averages 180 mph. But of course the car doesn't just start out at 180 mph, it starts a zero. Assuming a constant acceleration curve wouldn't this mean they're doing well over 300 mph by the finish line? You guys into this sort of thing would know.

Sounds to me like the human body can easily handle 0 to 300 in 5 seconds. Of course that's a pretty unrealistic launch for a coaster (what kindof layout would you follow that with?) but it still would be totally within the realms of physical endurance.

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www.coasterimage.com

Dragsters can get up to ~310mph.  The drivers might wear special suits to help wtih the forces of the acceleration.  Terminal Velocity does not apply to launches.  This is because their is an outside force working on the car, which is the force of the engine turning the wheels, which turns into the force of acceleration
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Lord Gonchar said:

Sounds to me like the human body can easily handle 0 to 300 in 5 seconds. Of course that's a pretty unrealistic launch for a coaster (what kindof layout would you follow that with?) but it still would be totally within the realms of physical endurance.
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www.coasterimage.com

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Yeah, but those pro racers are trained for that kind of thing. I don't think the average human being could sustain such speeds. It's like that spinning G-Force machine they use in the Air Force. At a certain number, the average AF pilot will faint, but the average, middle aged, out of shape shmoe will definitely pass out far earlier.

Well, I think we will see parks continue to build them higher and higher but you have to relize at some point in time the FAA might step in and not all parks will be able to build at the highest point because some parks have height restricitons either way its going to be interesting in the next few years also I want to see if this new 400 footer will happen at Heidie Park if it will.
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Wild Thing: 75Laps! Power Tower: 73 Rides. Valleyair Security 2002! 8Years Working at Valleyfair! 35Days till BGW & Kings Dominion Opening Weekends 1st trip of 2002!!

Well, according to the discovery channel special (extreme rides 2001), Hypersonic launches with a higher force than any drag racer.  Of course 5 seconds is a lot longer than 1.8 seconds.

Terminal velocity is entirely determined by mass/wind resistance ratio.  A coaster has a MUCH higher mass/wind resistance ratio than a human, so a coaster's terminal velocity is signifcantly higher than 120 MPH.

And just to clarify, terminal velocity doesn't make any sense at all in a vacuum, because there is no wind resistance.  An object in vacuum will continue to accelearte at 9.8m/s/s until it hits the ground.

Thanks and true ApolloAndy.  If you had a styrofoam train and a lead train, the lead train would fall faster than the styrofoam train (except in a perfect vaccuum).

1) All objects fall at the same rate in a vacuum or more correctly they accelerate at the same rate.

2) Terminal velocity applies only in air.  It is a function of the mass of the object and the aerodynamic drag.  It is different for different objects.  It is different for the same object when turned at different angles to the air.  It happens to be around 100 mph for the human body falling at low altitudes, thought it depends on which way the body faces.  Sky divers change body position so they can meet up in the air.  At high altitude a human body would fall faster since there is less air.

3) I have no idea what terminal velocity would be for a roller coaster, but I'd be willing to bet that it would be well over 100 mph.

4) I can tell you this though, even Intamin's 750 foot hill would result in a top speed of only 150 mph neglecting aerodynamic drag and rolling friction.  Physics determines that the height goes up as a function of the square of the speed.

5) Speed doesn't affect the human body.  If it did we would all die from our first ride in a jet. There are 2 real issues that are related to speed.

6) The first is wind blast.  How would you like to hit a sudden rain shower at 150 mph?

7) The second is the large radius required for the pullout from the hill.  The G forces that the human body can handle are a function of time.  It takes a lot more time to pull out as speed goes up meaning the G forces have to be lower.  The radius for a given G forces is a function of the square of the speed.  Combine this with the need to limit G forces because of their long duration and you probably come out with a pullout radius 3 or 4 time that of MF.  This will really take up a lot of real eastate and use a lot of steel.

8) In the end economics will govern, and at some height the cost of the coaster will just exceed what any park is willing to pay.

Right... because now matter what speed you're travelling, unless there is a change in acceleration, there is no change in force.  A change in acceleration can be caused by turning, or going faster or slower of course.

Everone else pretty much summed up what I was going to say about height and top speed, but regarding launched coasters and how much more acceleration the body can handle, I believe it can be taken further. I have ridden Hypersonic and that 80 mph shot in 1.8 seconds is actually not that strenuous on the body. It made me scream real loud though. In my latest Amusement Today, the article on Dodonpa stated that the highest g-forces felt in the launch were about 4.25 gs, which is what many coasters pull in the downwards direction sometimes.

I also look at navy pilots who get launched off aircraft carriers at 180mph in about 1.5 seconds. But yes, they are trained to handle it. NHRA drag racers, whether it be Funny Cars or Top Fuel dragsters, they hit 100mph in the first second from the green light, and they usually hit over 310 mph at the quarter mile mark in less than 5 seconds. Some of those racers are healthy, and some are not, but they all survive unless there is a fatal crash.

The point is, I feel the "average" human could withstand a launch even faster than 107mph and less than 1.8 seconds. As long as the g's don't surpass 9, most people "could" take it.

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Gravity is your friend!

Problem is no two humans are alike.  And very few hit the "average: human profile.  So I think we're approaching something of a limit to G's during a launch, but we can go faster by lengthening the launch time.  Basically, we can launch stuff as fast as we want, but it just can't be in less than two seconds or whatever.  ;)

If an item runs 100mph, it needs 4x as much energi to reach 200mph. When you increase the speed by 2x, you have to increase the energi by 4x. Sounds familiar?

There has to be a point where the car can not withstand a certain speed.  Think of a coaster car that has a very minor gap from the side wheels to the rails.  This would cause the car to "shimmy" or bounce back and forth inbetween the rails.  With a greater speed, the frequency of this "shuffeling" or "shimmying" will be so great that it will vibrate the car to death and cause all the nuts and bolts to come loose and kabloom..... the car falls apart.  For such a high speed, there must be absolutley no gap inbetween the rails and the guide wheels.  Think of it as an unbalenced washing machiene.  Just a little unbalencement and a lot of speed leads to a lot of vibration.  All this vibration leads up to a lot of energy, which could crack one of the running rails, which would cause a derailment.   
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*** This post was edited by KIBeast on 2/17/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by KIBeast on 2/17/2002. ***

Hey Rideman where you at? As soon as Rideman post, you know you're getting straight facts :).. So Rideman, how high before we start saying enough is enough?

Thanks in advance Rideman! ;)

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It's conflict that shows who a person really is!

I think a coaster can be 6000Ft. If its built around a mountian. It would have to drop in sections though or else you would die.
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3.2.1 launch

As far as I can tell roller coasters are in no danger of being limited by federal height regulations until they start approaching skyscraper height so I think it's safe to say there's quite a bit of room left there :-)

As for what will actually get built...well, that's a good question. Building a lift hill past the point of terminal might be pointless as far as acceleration goes but maintaining that kind of speed on a vertical drop for a few more second *could* justify the cost at some point. Still, I don't see coasters going much over 500 feet for the next 10-15 years at least. The rapid growth that's been spurring the industry on over the past decade is slowing down and the major players have either already invested in a ride that it's in their best interest to keep as a "tall" attraction or they don't have enough room for something on *that* grand of a scale.

I still think that if *anyone* is going to break the record being set by Heide Park by more than a few feet it'll most likely be somewhere in the middle of nowhere kinda like Desperado was. The layouts now have to have such gradual pull-outs and turns that the footprint requirements are becoming enormous.
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Huh, Pretty high man

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Arrow (like) forever dude

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go with gravity said:

The point is, I feel the "average" human could withstand a launch even faster than 107mph and less than 1.8 seconds. As long as the g's don't surpass 9, most people "could" take it.

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Remember that carrier launches and drag racers are both limited to about 5-6 G's and are short in duration.  Also, fighter jocks and drag racers are both accustomed to high G forces.  Actually, the worst Gs in auto racing may come in braking in Formula 1, drag racing, and carrier landings.  The G's are just as high as in accelerating and they are trying to throw you out of the seat, not pushing you back into it.  That's why you need a 6 point harness.
Of course roller coasters have to be designed to accomadated a much less select group than fighter pilots or race drivers.  Also, on the pullout a the bottom of a hill or in a turn, the duration is much greater.  A 180 degree turn at 150 mph is 5 seconds at 4.5 Gs.  This is enough to make most people black out if they aren't trained in how to resist Gs.  It also results in turn over 200 yards in diameter which eats up a lot of real estate. 

I really can't see the highest coaster being more than 500 ft.  I think that we will get to that mark, but I don't see us going any further in the NEAR future.......