Hercules at Dorney Park

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raptor6 said:
Give it a GCI overhaul!

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I agree so much! I've been thinking that for a while... do something like what was done with Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge by keeping the station to through the lift, and do something new with the rest of it.

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Webmaster,
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That 2nd hill on Hercules used to be a triple up, and was lowered by three feet initially during the rides first season. This all came about because the coaster failed to mount the hill on media day with all the TV crews there. The last time I rode that coaster, I couldn't help but think how a ride with such a great beginning could be so bad. I don't think Curtis Summers new how to design a ride with good pacing. His rides all suffered from poor structural and stress designs. That's why most of his rides are plagued with poor running quality. Most all of his coasters now sport additional trim brakes, All kinds of tracking problems seemed to arise in all his designs after their first seasons. Just look at Raging Wolf Bobs, Texas Giant, Timber Wolf, and Mean Streak.

I think the Giant was his most aggressive design, and that was initially started by Bill Cobb before he got too sick to complete the project before his death in 1990. My favorite coaster from him would be the Georgia Cyclone (back seat only), and even that ride is rough with trims everywhere.

So Hercules sounds like it contiues to steadily go downhill and the only way CF knows how to keep it going is to treat it like almost all their other woodies. It's sad really, because I think most of his designs could be easily reprofiled and engineered into decent rides with good running quality. Sad, very sad.

Wood - anything else is an imitation
*** This post was edited by Thrillerman 7/13/2003 11:13:20 PM ***

I think Hercules is the worst effect trims have ever had on a coaster. My first ride on it was early in the day, and with a just about empty train, in the front seat. I remember thinking how awesome this was gonna be because of the drop into the ravine or whatever before the lift. Then over the top, and ...... um arent we supposed to be dropping..... then finally when we did get to the bottom it was so painful because of teh dead track that it gave me a headache first time around. I remember it just about stopping on the following hill, then, plunging back down intot he dtructure, with what I thought was pretty good air on a small hop near the ground, and then into this fan turn, there were NO laterals, I mean it was totally disappoiniing, then down another drop and up a hill I can't place in pictures where it slowed to probably 10 miles per hour, then a very tight banked turn with again NO laterals, and another drop with very good air as it came up into the brakes. It seemed to be the wierdest coaster I had ever ridden(though my track record was a whopping 25ish at the time). some of the locals were commenting about how the yuear before it had had no trims, and I was very disappointed. So went my first encounter with a horribly trimmed coaster. I think this was after 99, but I don't remember exactly when. All I know is that after a back seat ride, I had so much of a headache I just sat on a bench. I think that if the trims were removed, we would have one of the greatest coasters in all of history,. just because it is so unique, and had o much strange air with the trims.

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I hate it when "cooaster enthusiasts" put down coasters. Why can't we just have fun on all of them?

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DorneyDante said:
did you look at the pic I posted. You can CLEARLY see where the hill used to go. Look at the second hill (the hill before the drop under the station).Do you see the supports that extend above the track. That is where the track used to go.

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That's fine, I never said I didn't believe you. I said I wasn't aware that there was a hill redone on the ride. There's nothing to discuss there.

I questioned your reasoning for the slower ride. It turns out I was correct in my assumption.

Now that we all agree its the brakes and not the hill size that causes the slower ride, let's get back to discussing the quality of the ride :)

My daughter and I got a solo (well just the two of us) ride on Hercules this past Thursday. That was cool.

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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 13

My first ever ride on Hercules was yesterday. (Saturday) I had a trimless ride. An empty train had just gone through, so none of the trims were on at all. It was horribly rough, but oh so fun! I then rode it directly after and was unsure if we were actually going to go down the drop or not. ;)

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Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean I

Yep. Hercules definately needs some soft PTC padding. :)

Yep. Hercules definately needs some soft PTC padding. :)

I remember riding Hercules back in 1990 or 1991, and I can honestly say that the ride was never that good. The drop out of the station and the first major drop down to the lake were amazing- easily the best parts of the ride. The rest of the ride was always kinda dull.

The reason for the "slow" ride was always because the triple-up after the lake turn- that element was meant to be a creative way to get the train back up to the "station" level, but it wound up taking away the majority of the train's momentum. I never knew about the hill being "re-profiled," but I can imagine that it was neccessary after the trim(s) were added to the first drop. Without the trims and without the lowering of the hill, the second portion of the ride was still VERY slow... very uneventful. I always found it sad that such a powerful drop could lead to such a lackluster finale.

I'm with the group that favors a Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge-style overhaul of the ride... someone (GCI, Gravity Group, S&S, whoever) should be hired to remove everything after the lake turn, perhaps make the coaster climb the hillside and make another major plunge to the lake before going back up the hill for a nice twister or out-and-back finale... something better than the pointless meandering that comprises the current layout.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

I really thought Hercules had an *excellent* lift hill approach. Probably the best I've been on.

The rest of the ride I found to be boring, but not 'rough' or 'painfull' at all.

Too bad that, it too, is trimmed.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

CB...you like the BACK seat on Boss....so why should we trust YOUR opinion on roughness...

bill, thinks chris rides shopping carts down flights of stairs for thrills...:)

Hell, I like SOB a whole bunch, too!

Bass and chris...separated at birth?

As for Herc, I didn't find it completely horrible, just boring except for the lift approach.

mOOSH

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A random Mooshter's Dawntionary listing: Flabbergasted [adj.] Appalled over how much weight you've gained.

Please, somebody tell me they didn't trim the run to the lift out of the station. Easily the best part of the ride.

Rob, the first time I rode the coaster in the early 90's, there was no trims on the first hill at all and it still had problems cresting the then lowered triple up. The next year when I went back, there were two trims on the first drop that actually threw me forward a little because they were on so hard. That's a big no no in my book on wooden coaster design. The already lowered 2nd hill was lowered even more to accomodate the additional braking like you stated. That triple became a double up with a slight ramp at the top. I haven't ridden the coaster in a few years, but the pictures I've seen of it recently lead me to believe that the hill has been altered even more.

ThunderHawk was running superbly in a complete downpoor that year. Amazing airtime in the front on the 3rd hill dogleg. Even the speed hills on the return were fast with air. I just wish the tunnel was rebuilt on the ride.

Wood - anything else is an imitation

My first ever ride on Hercules was yesterday. (Saturday) I had a trimless ride. An empty train had just gone through, so none of the trims were on at all. It was horribly rough, but oh so fun! I then rode it directly after and was unsure if we were actually going to go down the drop or not.

Wow! No trims? That must of been great. Yea, I do agree, the trim brakes make this like a 150 foot mine train. I sent a letter to Dorney last year telling them of my concerns for Hercules, and they said they would consider reworking it. If they took out the brakes and added more hills and helixes after the turn over the lake, this classic would be reborn again. Does anybody remember when the one Hercules trains failed to hit the brakes at the end and plowed right onto the train in the station? That accident was so horrible, but I still got myself to ride it again. And yes, the trains should be padded nicely so the ride isn't so painful for older people to ride, but in my opinion, it's all part of the fun to be jerked around on that turn over the lake. Like most wooden rides, Hercules once used to be very fun, but has died down over the years.

Thrillerman: Yes, there are indeed trims on the drop/turn out of the station. You know things are bad when the ride is trimmed BEFORE it starts!

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

Oh man...that one really hurts. I feel like cussing somebody out. Only problem is, that won't fix the problem. Maybe I should put a trim brake on my mouth. That always fixes the problem!! I can't take this anymore. Somebody take their wood coasters away before they destroy them all!! Another fine castration job done by your friends at CF. Remember the old Blue Streak?...Wasn't it fun?!!!!!!

Thanks for letting me vent...I'll try and be nice now

Wood - anything else is an imitation

*** This post was edited by Thrillerman 7/14/2003 2:52:02 PM ***

At least the Blue Streak still gives an excellent ride! I love that thing, individual lap bars and all...

I am no one to defend the way CF takes care of their wooden coasters, but to be honest, Hercules was never that good to begin with. If anything, they took a lackluster wooden coaster and made it more... lackluster. Plus, the Dinn/Summers coasters have a bad rep of having very back trackwork, so the "fixes" they made throughout the years might have resulted from mistakes made by Dinn and Summers.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

I try to overlook those lap bars and seat backs. I may not like it...but I can deal with it. Heck, I know someone who refuses to ride the Streak anymore because of all the retrofits. His daughter was finally big enough to ride the coaster for the first time last year, and he refused to ride it with her so I took her on the ride. I really felt like bad for her and thought he was being a complete a$$.

Anyway, my problem with the Blue Streak, is that it suffers from orange track syndrome. Any wood coaster that has that disease and then developes trim brake syndrome, is not being maintained properly by my standards. You have to understand Rob, I've been riding that coaster for well over 30 years, and it never suffered from anything until metal became the focus of that place. I will say though, when I rode the coaster last year I thought it felt a little faster than the year before, but the wheels still didn't feel like they were tracking properly on the orange track.

As far as Hercules goes, it was never that well engineered to begin with. So absolutely I agree with you. The trend I see with this chain is; that if a wood coaster in their line-up offers a unique thrill, chances are it will be too intense for the average guest. That thrill will then be altered or lessened to some degree. But...this same chain has no problem erecting metal rides that are extreme in size and intensity, while they are overly timid about their wooden coasters anymore.

They don't even have a kiddie woodie to start the little ones off right at any of their parks. Plenty of metal ones though....thats whats important anymore. Lets make our woodies so bad, and our steel so great, that everyone will start to think that wood coasters are rough and uncomfortable, with no thrill whatsoever.

Please don't get me wrong here. I enjoy metal rides. But I got involved with the several organizations to which I belong to be vocal about the heritage and PRESERVATION of the classic wooden rollercoaster. I'm not a know-it-all, nor do I claim to be one. That's why I'm back in school at 41 years of age. I'm going to do my damnedest to actively get invovled, which I partially am already.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I find even ACE's focus has changed somewhat over the years. But I accept it to some degree because of how much they've grown. But when you look back to when the club was first formed, amusement parks were still in declining numbers with classic rides and parks were being mercilously torn dorn every year, while the more sterile theme park industry was beginning to take root. I give all those guys credit for starting something that recognized the classic wooden coaster, let us not forget either!

Wood - anything else is an imitation

I agree I guess Hercules was always bad all along. Thrillerman, you are right how cedarfair makes the steel coasters great and the wooden coasters horrible. Everytime I visit Dorney with my school everyone skips ThunderHawk and Hercules and rides the 3 steel coasters. I don't know how they don't like wooden coasters' out of control feeling.

Thunderhawk also has too many trim brakes, which lessens the air you get off from the rabbit- top hills.