Heartline (or headline) turns on B&M hypers/gigas

Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:20 AM

I wanted to talk about a favorite element of ours that we noticed that Carowinds Intimidator had in spades (at least 3 of it) that Diamondback really didn't -- heart line turns or maybe its more of headline turns -- that turn your body effortlessly.

Almost as if the coaster is dancing your body for you - a very, very cool sensation.

We first experienced it on Leviathan last year on its third hill -- if you check the POV video, you will see a slight turn to left on top of third (small) hill. From the video, it looks insignificant. A yawner.

But in real world, my kids and I noticed it immediately and we raved about it after every time we rode Leviathan.

Then last March 26th, we went to Carowinds for the first time, and discovered to our pleasure that the Intimidator had at least of three turns -- the second hill turn, the turn on bottom of second hill, then the turn to right then quickly left around back then turn again.

We loved, loved that element. Diamondback doesn't have that -- just a straightforward (and don't get me wrong -- a very comfortable) turns.

Wondered if anyone else noticed that element -- turns that "dance your body" for you?

I wish B&M would include that MORE in their hypers and gigas -- we thought it would even be nice if we had a giga that went out then on way its back, it would weave right and left through the first part of hills/support columns on way back.

I think that would add a lot to the ride.

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:47 PM

I agree. That's why I like Intimidator more. It makes the ride feel faster.

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013 1:42 PM

Kings Island is building one as we speak! (unless it's an inverted stand up wingrider)

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:30 PM

Please not a stand up.

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Wednesday, May 22, 2013 7:59 PM

@Marvin

My partner and I love that element on Leviathan. For us, it's the defining moment of the coaster. What makes it so great is the effortlessness of the turn, combined with a good pop of airtime, and with a mini-head chopper moment to boot.

We rode Leviathan in May of '12, and as always, were eager to see how it would place on the Golden Ticket awards list in the fall. We were shocked at how low the Coaster scored. We thought it would debut in the top ten for sure, but instead settled for the 22nd spot. We thought it delivered a greater sense of speed, better airtime and a smoother ride than MF. But alas, its destined to be underrated.

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Thursday, May 23, 2013 5:50 AM

I agree that Leviathan is a bit underrated, and I suspect it has a lot to do with how the ride finishes. Diamondback ranks higher than Intimidator because Diamond has a very, very strong finish visually, flying over the crowds and spinning around then the splash down.

Intimidator on the other hand does it over a dry and barren patch of land. Leviathan has this long brake run and nothing to "add" to the sensation of speeding over the crowds, trees and more.

So, it's not just on B&M, but on the park operators to make sure they spend a bit extra $ in integrating the crowds, scenery and more.

If you put Diamondback on the same dry and barren patch of land, Intimidator would rate higher. I believe that.

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Thursday, May 23, 2013 10:56 AM

I think Diamondback ranks higher because, at least as far as the Golden Tickets are concerned, it has a higher rider count than Leviathan. I don't rule out the possibility that people in general like Diamondback better, but I'd be pretty surprised.

I think the same applies to many coasters in general on the Golden Tickets. If I understand the scoring system properly, it's pretty heavily influenced by rider count, more so than the CBuzz poll or Mitch Hawker's.

Last edited by sirloindude, Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:03 AM
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Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:13 AM

But Diamondback also ranks higher than Intimidator on Mitch Hawker's Steel Coaster Poll in 2012. #26 for Diamondback, #42 for Intimidator.

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Thursday, May 23, 2013 11:59 AM

I wasn't talking about Intimidator.

Besides, on here, you have Behemoth at 8, Diamondback at 10, and Intimidator at 11. The difference in the overall rating between Behemoth and Diamondback being less than .08% tells me that people pretty much like them all equally in an overall opinion sense. Some people prefer Behemoth, which I'd say is the airtime champ of the lot. Some prefer Intimidator with its dive-bomber second drop and criss-cross turnaround. Some prefer Diamondback because it has a little bit of both. I think you could argue that they run off of the same formula. Different polls will get you different results (for example, I participate in the rating system here, but I skipped Mitch Hawker's poll and I'm not a voter for the Golden Tickets).

Another thing to consider is that the Coasterbuzz poll has over 700 voters (and maybe many more), and that's probably more than Mitch Hawker's and the Golden Tickets combined (I think). I think you're going to get a more accurate representation that way.

Last edited by sirloindude, Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:07 PM
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Thursday, May 23, 2013 12:26 PM

With respect to Golden Tickets, ridership count is a big issue - so Leviathan necessarily cannot hit my ballot until I've had the opportunity to ride it. "New" rides are at a disadvantage when using that methodology, since many people may not have had the opportunity (I tend to think that others are like me and won't vote for anything they personally haven't ridden).

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Friday, May 24, 2013 10:00 AM

If you put Diamondback over a patch of barren land, it would still be a better ride than Intimidator. There's more airtime, the airtime is a bit more agressive. The layout is more interesting even without the watersplash.

Most enthusiasts tend to like airtime, and more specifically, agressive airtime vs. floater airtime. I rode Diamondback 10 times in a row last year (Thanks Fastlane!) and it had more air, better air, and only one trim. The banked turns that Intimidator, Leviathan, and a few others have are nice, but you're not going to hear most enthusiasts single those elements out and rank them over airtime.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 10:06 AM

I honestly like Intimidator better. The difference in air time isn't very much, but Intimidator's turns put it up a step. It's close.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 10:58 AM

And that's fine, I'm not saying what your opinion should or shouldn't be. But three seperate rankings done three seperate ways rank Diamondback higher than Intimidator and, having ridden both several times, as well as talking to people of have ridden both, the following statement that was made...

If you put Diamondback on the same dry and barren patch of land, Intimidator would rate higher.

...looks as though someone is stating a fact when, in fact, they're giving their own opinion. An opinion that most other people can look at and likely disregard, knowing what most enthusiasts vote for, and how the current rankings are. It's not the setting that enthusiasts say sets apart Diamondback. it's the ride.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 11:36 AM

Probably the reason we disagree is that you live near Carowinds. I live about 4.5 hours away from Kings Island and have ridden Diamondback a lot. I rode Intimidator, and was like "Wow, this is different". You probably have been to Carowinds a lot and when you went to to KI and rode Diamondback, you were like "Wow, this is different". They're probably equal in the grand scheme of things, but when you get used to a ride, you tend to think it's not as thrilling. When you tend to think it's not as thrilling, you like it less. This is the "I've ridden this so much" disease. B&M's are repetitive rides and get this disease a lot. This disease has over powered me with Diamondback in recent years. The same thing has happened with Millennium Force. That's why I feel Gatekeeper is better than Millennium It's different. I have not ridden the Voyage in years, and I know that if I rode it any time soon, it'd still be awesome.

The only rides that I have "over ridden" that haven't gotten this disease is the Beast and Shivering Timbers. I don't know why. Maybe it's the fact that they're wooden coasters that change with the weather. Whether or not the weather is the reason for this, I know I still love them even though I have been on them so much.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 11:58 AM

Why is Magnum better than Diamondback? Is it the beach?

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Friday, May 24, 2013 12:04 PM

No. They're very close, but with Magnum, you get loads of ejector air time if you sit in the right seat. I'm actually lowering Magnum, though, because my last ride on it wasn't very good. (Back car) I've had some amazing rides on it, though.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 12:06 PM

It has nothing to do with my closeness to Intimidator. Don't get me wrong, I love the ride. Last Saturday I went to the park for an hour to ride Intimidator and Afterburn. But I like Nitro and Diamondback better. If they were all three at Carowinds, I'd like it better. Because Diamondback and Nitro are, IMO, better.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 12:07 PM

Yeah, and in my opinion, Shivering Timbers is better than Millennium. It really determines on my most recent ride on it.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 12:15 PM

And your opinion is fine. I went to 5 parks in about 7 days the week I rode Diamondback for the first time. In that week, I rode 3 B&M Hyper Coasters and an Intamin Giga. In my opinion, Diamondback was the best of the 3 B&M hypers I'd ridden that week.

But the point was, according to the polls, Diamondback is more popular than Intimidator. Put them side by side in a flat, boring field, I highly doubt opinions of most people would change.

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Friday, May 24, 2013 12:24 PM

It doesn't make a difference to me. Intimidator is a tiny bit better.

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