Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:38 AM
Coasterpunk's post about front of the line passes got me thinking about this, but his post didn't quite cover this subject so I thought I'd ask.
I'm handicapped so normally I wouldn't know what it's like to wait an hour for each ride, but thanx to cedar point I do, and just wanted to get an idea of who thought what is fair. Don't worry you won't step on my toes regardless of what you say.
At great america (may that park live forever), if you're handicapped of course you get an exit pass, and in most cases you're allowed to ride almost immediately, waiting extra only if you pick like the very front or back on coasters. All that is asked is that you don't visit the same ride in a 2 hour period. I think that's pretty fair. What it allows is you to go continuously around the park from ride to ride... and by the time you get back to the same one it's been way over 2 hours.
At cedar point you get a pass, and you go to the entrance of the regular line, and depending on the line's length, you get a time stamped that says when you can come back and ride.... usually you wait almost what you would in the regular line. You also can't sign up for 2 of the major rides at once.
Needles to say I got on alot more rides at great america... and didn't have to spend hours apon hours sitting in the sun and waiting for my time to come.
Cedar point's rules don't really keep wheelchair's from pilling up in the exits, they just delay them, and cut the number of rides possible in one day way down. I realize it's more fair... but the effects on the general public aren't that great in the end.
what does everyone think?
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:47 PM
SF Great America's policy is very fair. I don't think that the general public realizes how difficult it can be for a handicapped guest to experience a park. I have had to wait an extra ride or two occasionally to allow a guest to ride, but I do it with respect and understanding. If fully healthy people were given a choice between waiting a turn and being handicapped themselves, I am sure they would wait. Something for all to think about. Many of us take life for granted.
So SFGAManiac, enjoy yourself this summer! Hope you get to ride the new ones.
An unnerving stillness in the woods of southern Indiana beckons for you on May 11th....
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:23 PM
I'm all for letting handicapped guests go through the exit (the SFGA way, not the CP way). This comes from someone who is vehemently against the passes mentioned in coasterpunk's post. I always think about what Arrow Guy said above: I'm sure it's tough for them to experience a park, so I say they should get all the help that the park can offer.
I'm glad they try to help you, SFGAManiac, and I, for one will always say something if another guest makes a fuss.
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:50 PM
Excellent point, Lothar, I hadn't thought of it that way before. As a ride op, I'd always had a problem with the immediate passes, since it lets people ride without waiting in the line. But you put it really well -- "it's tough for them to experience a park, so I say they should get all the help that the park can offer" -- it's completely true that most handicapped passes already eliminate certain rides for safety reasons, so why not give those individuals that little bit extra?
The only amendment I'd add is this: I've seen groups of people accompany one person with an exit pass, IE for a broken leg, and then they all ride with them. While I realize you want to ride with your friends/family, I'd say that if you want to ride immediately, you can only bring as many people with you as fit in the same row (2-4, depending on the coaster). If you want to have more people ride with you, maybe you should wait a bit longer. I've seen a lot of people take advantage of such passes, and that would help compromise that sort of thing. Also waiting for the front/back, which I know most parks do.
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Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:39 PM
ARROW GUY said:
"enjoy yourself this summer! Hope you get to ride the new ones."
...but realize it won't be via exit. :-)
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 5:58 PM
"The only amendment I'd add is this: I've seen groups of people accompany one person with an exit pass, IE for a broken leg, and then they all ride with them. While I realize you want to ride with your friends/family, I'd say that if you want to ride immediately, you can only bring as many people with you as fit in the same row (2-4, depending on the coaster). If you want to have more people ride with you, maybe you should wait a bit longer. I've seen a lot of people take advantage of such passes, and that would help compromise that sort of thing. Also waiting for the front/back, which I know most parks do."
I've seen people abuse the passes many times while I was in line, so I couldn't agree more. I think the one-row rule would be a great idea.
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:37 PM
My take on this is simple. If you are wheelchair bound then you definitely deserve the exit pass along with your friends or family. However there should be a limit to it. Possibly no more then 1 or 2 extra people to accompany you and ride the coaster with you. The other thing is I would really like to see the parks install separate exit ramps for the disabled. It would benefit the handicapped along with the others that are trying to exit the ride. Wheelchairs easily take up the whole width of an exit path thus causing exiters to clash with someone in a wheelchair. A separate exit to the station would eliminate this. Now on to the people with broken legs, permanent leg problems, etc. If you arent wheelchairbound then I feel you must provide proof that you are disabled. I may sound a little cruel on this but I know of friends back in highschool who would purchase fake casts for legs, wear them in the park, and be granted an exit pass. I know its inconvenient for the legit disabled(temporary or permanent) but the reality is that people will abuse the system for their own benefit. Other then that, the handicapped deserve special access because they have to deal with everyday things that the rest of us take for granted.
"SAVING THE WORLD BEFORE BEDTIME" Powerpuff girls
Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:51 AM
I personally have a friend that is disabled (cebral palsy) that really cant walk more than 5-10 feet without almost dying of exhaustion. I do take him with me on coaster trips. PKI only allows there to be the handicapped person and one other person with them. It does vary by ride as to how many people can be with the handicapped person though. I do like the policy that BGW has. They let you 2 times in a row without getting off of the ride if you are disabled or with someone who is!!!! Although that pisses the rest of the GP off a bit. It is nice however. Despite the fact at CP does it a bit differently and makes ya wait only enhances and increase the excitement level by having to wait and watch the ride and people getting off of the ride
What is life without it's ups and downs
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Thursday, March 15, 2001 6:29 AM
SFGADV has installed as sysem whereby the handicaped person gets the exit pass and can wait by the exit while one member of the party waits in line. When that person gets to the ride or the exit area (it varies by ride) the person and their party are allowed to board the ride. The sysem seems fair and last season everyone seeme to like it. The only extra wait was if the person wanted front then they had to wait for their party member to wait in that line as well.
Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:12 AM
I know that some of the CP coasters do have a separate exit/entrance for wheelchairs - Raptor has an elevator, for example. I know they don't all, and it would be a good idea if it could be done and clearly marked.
CP does have the policy for severe handicaps that you can ride twice without exiting, depending on the ride and how difficult it would be for you to return later. I agree with this, because it makes it easier for everyone to wait one more train than have to reset everything again later.
The limit I'd put on the number of people that can accompany you is not only for the row/car, but how many people you need to assist you into the ride. Ride ops are not supposed to physically handle guests (IE, lift them) and help them into the cars, other than extending a hand or something. Now, I did, because often the ride ops know best how you can get into the ride. But if you need to be lifted into the ride, certainly you may need more than just one person to ride with you, no problem. As long as they are there to help you!
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Thursday, March 15, 2001 1:45 PM
Its good to hear from some of your stories that most parks stick to a limit of how many people can go through the disabled line at any one time, I think it should be just 2 people(the person who is injured and someone else to help them) but here is a story that I still get angry about everytime I think about it, It happened at Universal Studios,Florida
We went round to EarthQuake, and the queue was only about 10 mins, anyway we were just about to get on, but were stopped right at the front, so we would be next on, suddendly a huge group of people appear in the disabled queue(I am talking about 20-25 people) we didnt think much about it at the moment so ignored it, Now one person was generally injured or disabled because they were in a wheelchair, and all the others were just normal people, but what happened next shocked us all.
Universal suddenly let EVERYONE on, Yes thats about 25 people all on the ride with no queueing through the disabled queue with only one 1 person generally injured, It was disgracful, of course we complained to the staff at the door, but they didnt do a thing which made it worse, of course when we complained, other people did too(It nearly broke out into a riot) I think it was the most disgraceful thing I had ever seen and it was like Universal just didnt care how they set the rules, I just couldnt believe they done it, we also witnessed it again in the day, It happened on Kong too, but with just 5 people all going through the disabled queue with 1 being disabled.
Luckly, this is the only park I have seen this happen at and all other parks I have been too stick to a rule that only 2 people go through the disbaled line with 1 being disabled and 1 helping them and no one else. Universal are just terrible, they need to learn with the rules that are set at other theme parks.
Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:22 PM
Every queue in DCA is handicap accesible, so I guess it would be hard to get anything like an exit pass..
Friday, March 16, 2001 3:21 AM
In SFNE, there was a handicap - pass system, The person and their party would come and ask the ride op for a pass which would specify a time for the party to come back - equal to the time they would have waited in line...
The policy was that 4 people, including the disabled person could ride on ths ticket...obviously for rides like Blizzard river, 8 people altogether could go on...
Unlike CP you could go round the rides and collect passes and build your day around the times specified....obviously there is a lot of leeway as far as times etc are concerned....Its not like we wouldnt let a person if they didnt have time to wait...
If the line was only 10 mins long, obviously, you would get straight on the ride...
It worked for us but admittedly, there was a lot of inconsistency between the ride operators....It just took a bit of common sense...
I think that was the biggest problem!
Saturday, March 17, 2001 5:16 AM
Cyclone_op is right and I also witnessed a lot of people taking liberties with the passes. What do the rest of you think about epilepsy being used as a disability? Please don't take offense as I know nothing about the illness so correct me if I'm wrong, but when you compare a person who is wheelchair bound who cannot wait in line to someone who looks to me as being able-bodied and uses this to get their entire family on a ride say 6 times in one day I wonder at their motives. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. As a ride op at SFNE I was surprised at people's attitude to these passes. I would have thought it was a good idea as it meant that those using them could plan their day around them ( a sensible thing at a theme park.)However, quite often the offer of a pass was met with incredulity and offense that they would have to wait like everyone else (and why not?) and that 'Its not like this at Disney'.
Saturday, March 17, 2001 3:39 PM
I once had a lengthy conversation with a gentleman who was with park management at Walt Disney World. He told me at one time one of the top five complaints was "wheelchair abuse". This encompassed several things. One was that school groups learned quickly that having one disabled student in a wheelchair with them got them on the attractions ahead of everybody else. The policy at the time stated that a disabled person could be accompanied by their "party". Only their party consisted of 20 or more students.This problem was solved by bringing the disabled person up through the exit to wait for the rest of the group to come up through the regular queue. The other problem,the most dispecable IMO was people renting wheelchairs at the main gate who were in no way disabled. They were treated as disabled once inside the park. This problem was solved by requiring documentation of the disablity in order to obtain a wheelchair or electric scooter.
Saturday, March 17, 2001 4:36 PM
YOu beat me to it Dutchman. I never saw such abuse as I did at WDW in 98. We had a family reunion there...anyway my mom didn't ride Space Mountain which had an hour wait. While my mom was waiting she saw a person in a rented Disney electric scooter stand and pick up the chair to move it (like George on Seinfeld), RUN up the handicapped entrance, rode the ride, and did it again 10 minutes later. I couldn't believe it. I complained to guest relations and the lady I spoke to said that's all she had been hearing all day was wheelchair abuse, basically people who were too lazy to walk and in no way handicapped. I'm glad Disney corrected the problem, which I gather they have by what you said, Dutchman.