Great Adventure - OK Shapiro - I Brought The Family This Time - 7/9
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Weather: Hot, Very Hot, Himid, near 90.
My son is 8. He has recently cracked the 44 inch mark. This means he can go on some coasters this tme around. (Runaway Train, Skull Mountain and Rolling Thunder in particular)
My wife is (for all intensive purposes - a non rider). She only go if we stop off for fresh coffee along the way. Any park - other than Knobles - makes a lot of money on her admissions. She is the best friend an enthusiast ever had. Not because she tolorates my habit, but because she will never be on one of your lines. No Q-bot - no coasters - no problem)
Talking to my wife the night before I said, "I may not be a candidate for father of the year, but I am not letting our offspring go on Rolling THunder. He will hate it, and get upset. He once was on Hershey's Comet (before the retracking) and he had a horrible time and hated it. He loved Phoenix and Twister. We also had a good time going on the whip, the flume, swings, wipe out & kite flyer at Rye a few weeks ago, so he wants thrills, he just can't easily reach them.
By the way...those of you who go to Great Adventure from Long island or New York City...we take route nine directly into 537. It's a nicer route...(Some famr areas) very little traffic and lots of options for something to eat along the way. (No tolls too!)
We ate at the I-hop on ROute 9. (Pancakes have gotten smaller, but the Mrs. loved the coffee.)
We got ot the park by 11:00 (Now you can tell this is not a typical report.) We used Two teacher tickets and a kids ticket to enter. Mrs. Reflux insisted on using prefered parking. Against my reasoning and principle, I let it go and we parked in what I thought was a crappy spot. We did get a poster map though and a good view of a flock of seagulls tearing into half a bagel that was thrown to entice them.
First up - Got to take Reflux Jr. on the RUNAWAY TRAIN. (Hey there's the T-CUPS)! Ok, one ride...
My passenger told me not to spin it. I obliged for a while, then I gave it a little tug. It's a nice ride, but one of hte 4 main discs - the red one - wasn't rotating. The ride overall has a relatively fair cycle. At the end of hte ride, he wanted to stay on, but the steadily building line said other wise. On to the train.
IT'S DOWN! Son of a gun. The ride I was looking foward to the most. (Especially with the new bruise-preventing restraints) OK...the LOG FLUME is running. 25 minute wait. He loved it and we were paired with another father / son team. Up we went. Down we went. He wanted to stay on for another lap. That was not going to happen as the line was building at a good clip. The boy has a thing for water rides. After 4 years of swimming lessons he should be able audition for a part in the dolphin show when flipper needs a day off.
The SKY RIDE: A nice way to get back to the other end of the park. Even mom joined us. The wait was about 15 minutes. The breeze up there was perfect. I didn't see any Toro trains running, but that's not part of this report and I won't mention it. Mom rode this one too and liked it.
SKULL MOUNTAIN: I guestamated that the line would be about 35 minutes. As we were waiting in the que, my son did not have a happy look on his face. We were listening to the sound effects from the speakers and he was getting afraid. "Daddy I'm sacred." I said, "You know that silly show on Cartoon Network, with Billy and Mandy. This is just like it. It's all just silly and it's not real." (Brief Pause) "Daddy I'm scared. I don't want to go in." (Serious look) "Look, you never have to go on any ride you don't want. I will never force you to ride something. Are you sure you want to leave?" "Yes." (In my mind I'm going...but you are now 44 inches and this is a coaster credit. Yet, In my heart I know what must be done) Sorry-no report on SKULL MOUNTAIN today.
I know another water ride you will like that you have been on before. Mom can ride too. CONGO RAPIDS. We got there to find a very long line. I would say an hour wait. Mom was not about to deal with it at all.
You have to understand. In my opinion...For an adult to wait for a half hour for an attraction it is understandable. For a kid to wait an hour for CONGO RAPIS, is unreasonable.
KOALA CANYON - we can get a wet, free from heat and enjoy a few splashes together. WAS CLOSED! Why would you have something like this on a sunny Sunday in July and have it closed is also unreasonable. There is little shade to sit in at this part of the park.
Why isn't RIP TIDE running? THis is an autrosity. Again it's near 90 degrees and it's a Sunday.
FUN FACTORY: Possible Nirvana. Although some of the attraction was not fully functioning, (I think Elmer's boat has been in the sideways position since last year) we spent nearly 3 hours in there. It wasn't that well run here's why:
The "ride op" or in this case "attraction op" was outside with a measring stick and there was little supervision in the play area. Biger kids had thier way with the attraction's highlights while the exhaustedly parents sat on the circular bench on the interrior of the structure. For those of you who don't know what this is: picture a multi-leveld play ground with not enough foam balls to shoot with air guns, throw by hand, or get dumped on you via numerous attractions overhead. This must have been inspired by the line "The bombs bursting in air," because you can't turn your head or leave a parental bunker without getting pelted. There are targets such as wall switches, enemy cannons and loony tune figures, but the best targets are other people. Paitball without pain.
Well that's not entirely true. Some kids were tripping in there, bumping into things and Jr. got a few rug burns.
I took notice of an unused phone in the play area and saw that there was a scrit that had to be used every time the phone was answered. It included the phrase, "Happy Aniversary."
It was also hot in there. There were bags and bags of additional ammo, but it was safely locked away in plastic bags under the stairs.
By the way, there was bullying, racketering and a natural pecking order between the children. If you were bigger, you took the ball vaccum, the cannon, the balls and the guns from those that were smaller. It was like unsupervised reccess on steroids.
I kept thinking, this would be great without the kids and just for us. (By the way: there is a smaller version at the Rocking Horse Ranch resort, where we stayed a year and a half ago).
We had to leave because the Mrs. needed a pit stop. This caused a tantrum as you-know-who didn't want to leave.
We ended up buying some popcorn and water and cueing for BLACKBEARD'S TREASURE TRAIN. It wasn't the runaway train, but it was a big hit. We sat in the second to last row and felt a few safe but fun forces. The ride ops were slow here and dispatches were about once per five minutes. (This was a fifteen minute wait) A re-ride would have been another 20 minutes.
I was gonig to head for Baleen's Water thingy. (Not Official Name) We stoped for more water and we saw that that water tower in Loony Tunes National Park was spouting. We joined the fray of about ten others who were enjoying a respite from the heat. Then while the Mrs. went to get more water, we joined the 2/3 area full to watch what was left of the Looney Tunes WE GOT THE BEAT SHOW.
This was just dreadful. You know the drill. Buggs, Daffy, Sylvester, Tweety (Who looks very good for her age), Foghorn and Taz were joined by a perky and cute singer, dancer, hey-it's-a-job and at least I have my union card entertainer with a head set. The show was based on uptempo 80s music. Even if you like uptempo 80s music you wouldn't enjoy this. Even if you like Looney Tunes, you wouldn't enjoy this. Daffy tries to be the star, no one cares. Sylvester threatens Tweety, noone cares. Taz play the drums, no one cares. ACtually there was little applause, the girl's mike was too loud and it just was bad.
I'll say this again. Kids today don't relate to Buggs and his pals. They like Nick and Cartoon Network. The real little ones shouldn't have to be subjected to 80s tunes sung by Mel Blanc imitators.
What would have made this show good would have been if it were a rainny day and there was noone in the theatre except me. Having them contractually run this thing while I would be alone in there with a plate of Chippys Fish and Chips would have been priceless. I would have thrown some fries near the stage to attract seagulls and gease. Once I saw part of the country show in the rain. I like country, but this was just plain awful. I asked for a request, but was told that they weren't taken. Those folks weren't going to make it to CMT.
One last ride: SPONGE BOB. We did it last year, it was a big hit and it would be a nice change. Besides, the que is in the shade. 40 minute wait. Mrs. Reflux waited by the enterance and we were hitting hte attraction. While we were waiting, I couldn't believe my eyes...people were coming over to join their friends already in line. This is the kind of thing I would expect to see on a big coaster, not at a kid's attraction. No security in sight. I overheard "I 'Aint Wait-innn on dis line." (Trust me this wasn't a q-bot on this group and besides, Spongebob isn't a botted attraction).
Cooler heads prevailed and in a nutshell they got away with it. Noone got hurt, beat up or ejected from the park. This was a perfect example of extortion. There was so many little kids around who correctly asked themselves or their parents, "Why?" Why indeed!
We got in on the third cycle and went to the preshow. THere is something mentioned during the clever film about how this show and theatre have been pain-stakingly designed to give everyone the same unobstructed view from any seat in the house. I find that hard to believe. We did enjoy the show and laughed at the right moments. I loved it. MY son loved it. It's SpongeBob, what's not to love.
On the way out (5:12 PM) we decided to eat on the road. I found a really good pizza place on route nine in the shopping plaza/strip mall where Old Country Buffet is. We had little traffic and we were back in the house before 8 PM. Jr. slept happily for a good portion of hte trip.
Bathrooms: Clean, well stocked with soap, but hte stalls were routinely a bit too dark. Not that we're trying to read in there, but come on, some more perimeter lighting.
Food: was overpriced. Water was expensive. Popcorn was $3.50 for four ounces. Both of our main meals were planned to be purchased and eaten outside of the park.
Security: Badly needed in places where you wouldn't think.
Clientele: Quite a few of the desired targeted families. Most Families with young kids tend to get there a bit later and stay a little shorter.
Entertainment: Look, it isn't Broadway. It isn't off-braodway. It isn't very good. We did see a guy dreesed as a statue in a box and a guy who wasa baton twirler. (Maybe I'm being gender-biased, but a guy shouldn't make a living throwing batons)
Ride Ops: NOt very good along the kiddyland trail.
Rides: Open the *&&^ rides. Too many things for kids weren't open. I already said it, but it's worth repeating...KIDS CAN'T WAIT AS LONG AS ADULTS!
CLeanliness: Most of hte park was quite clean, except for patches of gum that were flattened along the cement walkways.
Value: As we were driving back on 537, I got into a conversation with my wife.
"OK, we did have free tickets for all of us but we spent 20 bucks to park and about 20 bucks for water and popcorn. Do you think this would have been a good value if we paid the door prices?" (I explained what they were?)
"No."
"What if it only cost us 30 bucks to get in?"
"No."
"What do you think it should cost for tody's 'Great ADventure?'"
Her non-enthusiast answer: "Maybe 20 bucks tops."
I asked her to go back to a few summers to Cedar Point. "Was that a better value?"
"Yes."
"Why?"
"There was more for [him] to do and [he] seemed to have more fun."
"What about Knobles?"
"That was also better."
I reminded her that it was about half the price of six flags and that we didn't pay for her [non-rider] and for parking.
"That was a better deal."
OK Shapiro! I brought the family this time. That's what you wanted. We are the target audience. You made my kid wait in long lines. You didn't provide enough security. You didn't have enough rides for a 44 inch kid and his dad to enjoy togehter. You also need to clean your balls (In the FUN FACTORY).
We did like the overall cleanliness of hte park, but you still have a long way to go before we come back as a family.
Here's To Shorter Lines & Longer Trip Reports!
Comments: Why did I laugh when I read something along the lines of "Mrs. Reflux LOVES her coffee"? I figured you'd appreciate the humor consider *you* came up with this..."The boy has a thing for water rides. After 4 years of swimming lessons he should be able audition for a part in the dolphin show when flipper needs a day off." Sweet! :)
On to the appraisal:
Mine ride, FAMILY ride, down. Points off.
Skull Mtn., sorry you missed it. The skull thing can be scary to younger guests, and it IS dark inside, but it IS a nice ride with a surprisingly INTENSE first drop.
Congo Rapids? Meh, water rides are low-capacity by nature, if they're running it *TO capacity*, then it's just busy and I'd give 'em a pass. I *have* heaped some praise on parks that have multiple flume rides that double capacity (SFoT, e.g.).
KOALA CANYON - we can get a wet, free from heat and enjoy a few splashes together. WAS CLOSED! Why would you have something like this on a sunny Sunday in July and have it closed is also unreasonable. There is little shade to sit in at this part of the park.
Can't add to that, thought it was PERECT as is...
If you thought "Fun Factory" held a lot of PROMISE, the one at SDC is head-and-shoulders above EVERY other play area of its type.
Line jumping on kid-friendly rides? YIKES, that ain't gonna impress the FAMILY demographic a whole lot.
MOMS (Mark S. knows why that's in CAPS) hate that stuff. ;)
But Spongebob is SQUARE on the demographic for the young ones....*I* like Looney Tunes, but geez, I'm like, what, a million or something.... :)
As for Mark "cleaning his balls", well, I'm happy about the restrooms! ;)
Nice TR. I agree with ride operations, this year at GADV it has been horrible.
Second, If security is present throughtout the park, The thugs will stop frequenting. Same at SFMM.
Chuck, who's seen many parks employee not just security but local police.
Richie Reflux said:
Rides: Open the *&&^ rides. Too many things for kids weren't open. I already said it, but it's worth repeating...KIDS CAN'T WAIT AS LONG AS ADULTS!
Why is *this* true? Maybe, we were exceptional, but when we were young, my sister and I, along with our friends *ROUTINELY* had to wait in hour long line when we went to our local park (Great America / Chicago). While I dont recall being overjoyed by the prospect of waiting, we were certainly *able* to do so. And if we ever "acted out" like we "had no home training". We'd get a pop in the mouth and a quick trip home.
I dont believe for a second that kids "cant" wait as well.
lata, jeremy
I have noticed this at other SF parks this season. While operations at SFA were vastly improved over the past few seasons (2 train operations, ops who seemed to know what they were doing and were "pleasant" [perhaps not overly friendly, but certainly not rude as in the past], a much cleaner environment, better staffing, and just over all better run), the one thing that did seem to be the same was the same "rough around the edges" crowd... though I will admit that security was keeping a much closer eye on things such as line jumping and the like.
Visiting SF parks this year (as stated in another thread SFA, SFKK, SFStL), I noticed the same thing as at SFA. With the exception of one ride crew (those cluless souls who were running Screaming Eagle at SFStL) the operations seemed vastly improved with practically no rides shut down (except for those what looked like they were shut down for the long term, including Mr.Freeze at SFStL). Granted, I can't compare SFKK and SFStL to other years, but while I was expecting a rather typical SF experience (read: Crappy), I was pleasantly surprised. However... the one thing that I found that I was expecting... a less than stellar quality of guests. While I did see a large number of families, I also saw your sterotypical rude and obnoxious behavior from your "teen types" that Shapiro seems to want to avoid. There was one point when I was envisioning a fitting demise of the obnoxious, loud, foul mouthed group of 4 (3 girls, one boy) waiting in line behind me. Lucky for them that 1) there was no way to fling them onto the coaster tracks and make it look like an accident and 2) I didn't feel like spending the next few years incarcerated. Of course, since this was waiting in line for Screaming Eagle, I doubt that those idiot morons operating that coaster would have even noticed. But I digress. These kids just seemed typical of the "type" that SF parks attract... a bunch of unruley kids turned loose by their parents at the front gate (I could just envision "mom" driving up to the gate at closing in her Dodge mini-van with the requires soccer ball magnet on the tail gate to pick up her little "angels" after their day at the park and her night out with the other desperate housewives of her subdivision).
Bottom line... You can improve the parks all you want.... but you can't do much about the people who come through the gates.
Oh, also... a half an hour wait for a water ride / raft ride at a major park on a hot day? What is so unusual about that? What is unusual is that it is ONLY a half an hour. As far as being acceptable for adults to wait that long for a water ride but not acceptable for kids... Should small children (as well as q-bots or Flash Passes) also get front line access?
Nit pick and be critical of Six Flags all you want... but at least do it fairly.
While I did see a large number of families, I also saw your sterotypical rude and obnoxious behavior from your "teen types" that Shapiro seems to want to avoid.
But this is true at almost any park. Cedar Point is filled with teens, though I have noticed that they are often reasonably well behaved---perhaps that's due to the nearly ubiquitous CP Police presence. And, for what it's worth, the PGA crowd was much more interesting than the midwestern corn-fed CP crowd, but it was also quite well-behaved. I haven't been to a Six Flags yet this year, but in past seasons I haven't really noticed obnoxious behavior that was any worse than any other amusement park.
KA - two train operation, only operating one side of the station = huge waits.
El Toro - closed
Adding this onto the previously mentioned closures and/or poorly operated rides make this park appear to be as poorly run as SFMM.
But this is true at almost any park. Cedar Point is filled with teens, though I have noticed that they are often reasonably well behaved---perhaps that's due to the nearly ubiquitous CP Police presence.
And the fact that in the past they were also well behaved under the near ubiquitous police presence.
Most other major theme parks have not been used as relatively cheap "baby sitting" because 1) they don't give away the gate with all sorts of cheap deals and 2) they don't insantly offer season passes for the price of a one day admission. Hate to say it and be brutally honest... but a different class of clientel. SF may be able to change their operating standards in one season, but the same group of visitors will still be coming through the gates.
When you see the gate no longer beign given away, and when the Season Passes for SF raise to the prices where they SHOULD be ($125 to $150 range), then you will see this "mob mentality" dissapear. The people going to the parks will go there because they WANT to go there... not simply using the parks as a place to kill time, loiter, and perhaps catch a ride or two on a coaster.
Those little hellions (is that a word?) that were waiting in line behind me on Screaming Eagle were the exceptions actually. Most crowds in the lines were rather well behavied, and if anyone did start to get out of line or become too obnoxious, an employee or some sort (op, security, etc) would say something to them. Problem is that on Screaming Eagle, the ops were just as ignorant as the little brats behind me. What was untypical... This was the only SF ride crew that I saw like this during this trip. In previous years, ignorant, lazy, rude, foul mouthed, unmotivated, uncaring SF ride crews were usually the rule, rather than this one exception. *** Edited 7/11/2006 3:36:54 PM UTC by SLFAKE***
I dunno. I grew up down I-95 in the DC area and really only made it up to GA a couple times as a kid and, frankly, I never liked it. Mostly due to crowds/lines/uncleanliness, I guess. So even tho I've been living in the NY area for several years now, I've been hesitent to return to GA...particularly since having kids. Glad to hear they're at least aware of the need to make the place more attractive, but I think I'll probably wait a bit longer before bringing the fam. So I guess there's my answer on the SF "family situation".
I believe the current strategy is to PRICE them out of the market...MIGHT work. Personally, I'm still in favor of "The Lake Winnie Solution". :)
When I go myself and I am accidently kicked, elbowed, etc by kids, I tend to smile and take it in stride. Trust me it's hard to stay calm cool and collected when it's your kid running out of steam.
Gator - I have been on SKULL MOUNTAIN many times, but this would have been the first time Pre-flux would be able to ride it. By the way, what is SDC?
T-mac - If Cookie Monster can get assulted at Sesame Place, no costumed critter is safe.
S-FLAKE - If every water ride was opened, we wouldn't have to wait an hour for a water ride. No Riptide, No Koala Canyon. That hour-long line could have and would have been more dispersed. Also, CONGO RAPIDS may have 12 person doughnuts, but the ride is not impressive.
Paperboy - Thanks for chiming in. NO running of Toro on a Sunday in July. The new marketable "hot" attraction. It should have been up and running. When a big ride goes down, it makes all the other lines longer.
Brunus76 - Welcome aboard! You might want ot take you kids to WIldwood or to Rye or Knobles. The lines there aren't as intense during the day. (At night Wildwood's piers get very busy - even the kiddie sections)
If you read my report from Great Adventure from late June (rainny day) I thought most of it was very positive. Today I went as a new targeted demographic - a FAMILY unit and had a different experience despite the hot and sunny weather.
Here's To Shorter Lines & Longer Trip Reports!
Brunus76 - Welcome aboard! You might want ot take you kids to WIldwood or to Rye or Knobles. The lines there aren't as intense during the day. (At night Wildwood's piers get very busy - even the kiddie sections)
Now that I can agree on.
Even as an adult, I would rather be at Moreys Piers or Knoebels over SFGrAdv. They do have oodles of kiddie rides. Not too sure about Rye though. Do they have a POP option? When we were there they only had tickets, and it can get expensive after a bit (though I am not sure of the cost of the kiddie attractions).
Brunus76 - Welcome aboard! You might want ot take you kids to WIldwood or to Rye or Knobles. The lines there aren't as intense during the day. (At night Wildwood's piers get very busy - even the kiddie sections)
Yeah, the first park I took my daughter to was Rye Playland on a Friday night last summer and she fell in love with it. The Kiddieland rides were perfect for her and I could see in her eyes that she seemed to be totally taken-in by the atmosphere of the place--particularly as dusk settled, the ride-lights came on, and the Friday night fireworks were set off. I knew right then that she was "one of us". Ha!
Next up I'd like to try out Knobles and maybe Lake Compounce. Our trip to CP last week was the first "big park" she'd been in and she loved it, but I also think she was probably frustrated by not being big enough to go on 90% of the rides we walked past. Smaller parks may be the way to go for now. She seems to be a junkie for the Tilt-a-Whirl, so I'll go anyplace that has one of those! Ha!
Anyway, thanks for the advice and the welcomes. Pleased to be on board here...
And welcome to the board :)
"The World's Largest Treehouse", Geyser Gulch was SO massive, so impressive, with water and foam balls EVERYWHERE, I don't know how else to describe it...so:
Geyser Gulch
P.S. Love the moniker "Pre-flux". Good times! :)
oh, and welcome aboard brunus! Listen to Peabody, Hershey IS "fun for all ages".
*** Edited 7/12/2006 1:37:33 AM UTC by rollergator***
Plus they intersperse the kiddie rides in among adult rides, so they aren't off in a separate kiddieland. Good for you as a parent too.
Richie, too bad about your GAdv experience. I suggest you send a copy of your TR to Mr. Shapiro. For better or worse, he should know what families who are going to parks actually think. And hopefully, he'll take the proper action.
You get what you pay for. Actually, if you go look back toward the end of my insanely long post, you will see that my wife would have spent $20 buck tops for the "fun we had." She didn't take into account all of the other things that the park offered (KA, Nitro, Medussa, BTR, etc) that we hadn't planned on doing based on our initial goal. (Giving "the boy" (who again is just a hair over 44 inches) a nice day.
By The Way - Keep your eyes open for a personal message from me. I think I may have something that might interest you.
Gator - Thanks for the info. I will definately check it out.
Here's To Shorter Lines & Longer Trip Reports!
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