Geauga Lake, future of the wild life side.

NATAs- If CF does that then Cp will be put out of bussiness. That would turn GL into one of the best parks in the world. I think they should return the park back to the way it operated under sixflags. THe animals should stay and if CF feels they can not mamnge animals well that is crazy it is not like Dick is going to swim with shamu come on!!. Hire the right people and give enogh money and it will work. Or they could hire an outside company to manage that part of the park. Bottom line they need to keep the animals that was a huge draw.

Koasterkid,

Cedar Fair announced in the confrence call that Six Flags was keeping the animals. CF would then have to purchase new animals and then train them -- not an easy task. Kinsel already said they are going to stick to what they know and make the park strictly an amusement park -- no animals.

The main reason that CF has been so succesfull in the past and will continue to be succesfull is because they only take on business's and companies that they are very familar with and will be able to makemthe largest profit from. Unlike six flags who constantly tries to branch out in fields of bussiness that they are not nearly as familar with as other, CF will not take those types of risks and thats one of the main reasons i believe why they have been so succesfull. I remeber reading an interview with Dick Kinzel a couple year's back when he mentioned that CF has thought about buying and operating ski area's and beach resorts but they ended up deciding against them because they were not to familar with thoses types of business's.
It makes sense because why pore millions upon millions of dollars into a bussiness that sinse they havn't done before there not necisarily sure the best way to run it and make the most return on investment, this is a stupid risk to take when instead you can spend the money instead on something that you do understand and no from experience the exact way to run it to make the most return on investment.
CF made the right decision to not go into the animals because instead of spending money on something your not familar with the chances of making money is much less than using that money instead to build resorts with which they are very succesfull and familar with.

I would also expect to see an indore waterpark in the next 5-10 years

---

KoasterKid said:
NATAs- If CF does that then Cp will be put out of bussiness. That would turn GL into one of the best parks in the world.

---

CP would not be put out of business by a Downtown Disney type area. Nata's idea was very similar to what I mentioned in another thread. This idea is something that CP doesn't have, so it would be an incentive to visit Aurora.

I envision an area like this to have a modest separate admission charge, maybe $10 or $15 dollars. Most of the money would be made from the shops, nightclubs and restaurants. In addition to park goers, this area would have widespread appeal to the Cleveland area for a night out. This could be a year round operation, though it would obviously be most popular during the warm months.

With the right mix of activities, this would attract all age groups. From senior citizen bus tours who like to browse the gift shops, young adults looking for a night out with drinks and dancing, to everyone who would enjoy a waterfront meal at a restaurant.

The Cleveland area alone is plenty big enough to support this type of entertainment venue. For those in the Cleveland area familiar with Legacy Village, look at it as a Legacy Village type place with the focus on entertainment rather than retailing. *** Edited 3/12/2004 3:13:26 PM UTC by Pete***

Pete has a point there. I think people are generally not into The Flats like they used to be (it's going back to being a dump), and the Warehouse District has had more failures than successes in terms of night stuff. A nice clean, safe place to go out and party at night would be a welcome addition to the Cleveland area.

For those of us who are completely uninformed: why did those other locations fail? What would make this different?

I think that's about the best idea I've heard for that site. Residential and commercial just doesn't make sense, because you're talking about what Geauga Lake customers are going to have to look at across the lake. The only residential development I could see going in there would be employee housing.

I like the idea of developing the Sea World zone into an *ungated* entertainment area. Initially, I'd expect it to be Geauga Lake's answer to Challenge Park, easily accessible from Geauga Lake by foot or by ferry (or with a little fabrication, by monorail...). The next phase of the development, then, would be to add in additional entertainment centers, preferrably on a year-round basis, to supplement the park, campground, hotel, and neighborhood.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

So you're talkin' like a Pleasure Island of the North? Although its a little far into the "countryside" I think that kind of thing could be good if it's done right. Interesting idea ...

The Flats and Warehouse District in Cleveland were areas for heavy industry for the better part of a hundred years. When that business went away, some enterprising folks (which I think included the Jacobs brothers) thought that perhaps it could all be repurposed as an entertainment area.

The Flats, named so because they're down along the Cuyahoga River, consists of the east and west banks. The west has a huge old powerhouse (creatively referred to as The Powerhouse) with a concert amphitheater next to it. This is/was the crown jewel of the development, as this beautiful old building had TGI Friday's, Rock Bottom Brewery, The Improv and other clubs. Friday's is gone now, and many of the other tenants have turned over. Surrounding businesses have been up and down as well, with only Christy's continuing to draw people (it's a boobie bar).

Combine this with even more turnover on the east bank, which has been the subject of more lost liquor licenses, drug busts and I think even a few drownings (that might of been at Shooters on the west side), and the reputation has gone down hill. It doesn't feel or appear as "safe" as it used to.

The Warehouse District, up the hill from the east bank, is filled with these old classic warehouses. Most of them have been converted to office and high-end (or expensive at least) living space. Parking is a little more tricky in that area unless you walk, but I don't know why these places haven't thrived more. Given that much of the target audience lives way out in the suburbs, I know I'm not that crazy about going all the way downtown, and I wanted to even less when I worked down there.

It's funny that you mention Legacy Village, because Steph and I agreed that it felt a lot like City Walk the first time we were there. A clean, classically themed set of shops and restaurants has a lot of appeal I think, because we don't have anything like that. The Powerhouse felt like that at first, but I think the surrounding reputation of The Flats killed that off. Why not try it out of town?

Long rambling not interesting to most non-Clevelanders, but that's your answer. :)

If you think the residents of Aurora and Bainbridge are going to be happy with a nightclub district as a replacement for Sea World you have lost your marbles.

They complain about the rides being open late, the traffic, etc. Introduce late night alcohol consumption into the mix and you will have some exciting Town Council meetings.

I would argue that it was probably far worse back in the old Geauga Lake days, when there was far more beer to be had.

Ok, just have Cedar Fair buy Aurora then ... good solution, no? ;)

That's interesting about the Flats and the other side Jeff - my friends and I came out to Cleveland a few times in the last 4 or 5 years for concerts in that area (mainly Reel Big Fish shows) and we always thought it was a decent area. Shame that it all fell apart though. We were hoping to now make Cleveland our concert home since they have effectively shut down the entire concert circuit in Pittsburgh except for like $100 Britney Spears and Rolling Stones shows. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are gonna turn into a pretty crappy music location pretty fast if something doesn't turn around ...

---

Ok, just have Cedar Fair buy Aurora then ... good solution, no?

---

Well, it was Disney's solution in Florida, aka the Reedy Creek Development District: a quasi-governmental entity empowered to make zoning decisions, etc. that is owned lock stock and barrel by the Mouse.

Eh, good point. Well, if CF has delusions of grandeur and wants to take on the Mouse, this is probably the best time to do it ... even though they won't ...

---

Impulse-ive said:

We were hoping to now make Cleveland our concert home since they have effectively shut down the entire concert circuit in Pittsburgh except for like $100 Britney Spears and Rolling Stones shows. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are gonna turn into a pretty crappy music location pretty fast if something doesn't turn around ...

---

It funny you should say that especially after Esquire just ranked Pittsburgh tops in the cities that rock. http://kdka.com/local/local_story_070120945.html

They would be smart to add something new and exciting this season, because I cannot imagine many people wanting to visit a park that would be a shadow of what it was last year, i.e. minus half of the park, unless if they add something new and exciting. I wonder how much of this is just a case of Cedar Point destroying its competition and so to them feeling like who really care what happens to Geauga Lake.

I honestly feel that Six Flags simply gave up, plain and simple and I am disappointed in them. Had they stuck things out and added all those amazing attractions they originally said they would, I have a hard time imaging people not being excited to ride that hypercoaster that would span the former Sea World side, the dark ride, the Lost World, etc. The park under Six Flags' initial vision would have been amazing and probably would have interested people. After being excited and hopeful that last few years, I feel rather let down, because you take my parents who aren't really able to ride rides liked visiting the park with me the last few years just to see the animals and now that is taken away from us. Cedar Point will be fools to get rid of any of the Geauga Lake coasters unless they replace them with something new and if they have to change ride name, do they have to retheme the whole Gotham City area as well? *** Edited 3/12/2004 5:03:33 PM UTC by Zar*** *** Edited 3/12/2004 6:50:22 PM UTC by Zar***

Somebody explain to me how they might possibly add something new and exciting in the six or 7 weeks leading up to the start of the season.

Maybe they have one of those Doc Brown custom Deloreans.

Sell the animal side to Ripley's Museums & Aquariums.....Cedar Fair ruined the best part of the park, and now its just another ride park! *** Edited 3/12/2004 5:40:24 PM UTC by midwave***

---

Zar said:
Had they stuck things out and added all those amazing attractions they original said they would...

---

Which attractions were those? I seem to have missed that press release. Anything you heard was rumor, probably thought up by wishful thinking enthusiasts, not fact.