From England to the Point

Monday, December 8, 2003 7:31 PM
I kind of lump this hotel minimum age requirement with the drinking age.

You can die for your country, vote, and drive a vehicle at 18 but you have to be 21 to get a hotel room? I am sorry but its just ridiculous.

If the issue is maturity and the possibility of destroying a room, the hotel should make sure the person has a valid credit card number on file. That way if property damage happens, they can recover the costs.

Monday, December 8, 2003 11:47 PM
I think the real problem you are going to have is not where to stay, but how to get there. At 18 you cannot rent a car. I don't think there is one rental agency out there that will allow it, and many don't allow it unless you are 25. It is due to liablity issues. Insurance just casts too much for the rental agencies to rent to younger drivers.

Chitown: It may not be a matter of if the hotel can recover damages, it, like the car rentals, may come down to liablity issues and the cost to insure their hotel.

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 12:08 AM
Actually I think Enterprise may let you, but you have to have oodles of insurance.

Might just be a good idea to hook up with some friendly Yanks.

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 5:24 PM
Since this happen to come up recently at GTTP, my post there is relevant here as well:

Why do young people drink? Because they enjoy a glass of fine wine ... or because they want to get drunk? There is a huge alcohol problem in colleges. Lowering the drinking age would make it that much worse.

Young adults are responsible for more than half of all alcohol-related fatal crashes. They also have the highest BAC in fatal crashes. This is why the age was raised from 18 to 21 in the first place. It was a very good decision.

The old enough to die for your country argument is comparing apples and oranges. I read somewhere once that, "To die for your country is one thing, but to die because you made a poor choice to break the law and drink underage is quite another."

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 6:17 PM
Thank you for all taking the time to reply to my post. However, I think I'm about to complicate it a bit.

I'm 18 and on the verge of passing my driving test, but because I will not have been on the road for long, and due to the fact that I have not fully recovered confidence wise from a car accident I was involved in, I really really don't want to drive if I can get away with it.

I will be travelling alone (so hopefully hotels will at least consider having me).

The basic plan for my trip is to fly directly to CP's nearest airport (which I think is the International Airport, Cleveland Hopkins (CLE)) no matter how uncomfortable the plane is. The I want to get a bus or taxi to a hotel as near to, or in CP, spend several days in the park, check out whats nearby by foot, possibly visit a close park (though most sound quite far away) via a coach tour if any run at all, taxi or bus back to airport then home.

I realise this probably won't be as easy as it sounds and I have a horrible feeling I will have to drive but thats what I hope to do, as boring as it might sound.

Any further recommendations, thoughts, suggestions, etc.


Tuesday, December 9, 2003 6:39 PM
You probably won't be able to drive anyways, it is likely you won't be able to rent a car due to your age. The most affordable way to do the trip to and from the airport is on Greyhound bus lines, it is $25 round trip from Cleveland to Sandusky. It would cost a fortune to go by cab.
Tuesday, December 9, 2003 6:54 PM
Walt, that is your opinion.

Statistics are constantly thrown around to argue points or change laws.

Plenty of people over age 21 are getting into trouble when it comes to alcohol abuse.

Its not apples and oranges on the "die for your country" spiel. Its the principle of it. You are mature enough and an adult at 18 to fight for this country and our freedom, but when it comes to having a beer or renting a car, all of a sudden you aren't?

It not the age that dictates maturity. Its the individual. *** Edited 12/9/2003 11:55:02 PM UTC by Chitown***

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 8:20 PM
So, what do you propose? Should all car rental customers and everyone who walks into the state liquor store be subjected to some sort of maturity test?

What would that test consit of?

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 8:31 PM
If the DMV issues a driver's license to someone that is 18, surely they must be mature enough in the eyes of the state to get behind the wheel of a vehicle which in turn should mean that they can be trusted to drive a rental car.

Ahh forget it, all we are going to do is go in circles here on this subject. :)

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 9:06 PM

Chitown said:
Statistics are constantly thrown around to argue points or change laws.

That is often true. But in this case, the facts regarding alcohol abuse and DUI are quite clear.
*** Edited 12/10/2003 2:07:15 AM UTC by Gemini***

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 9:48 PM
But what's *not* clear is your claim that "There is a huge alcohol problem in colleges. Lowering the drinking age would make it that much worse." It's funny, then, that countries with lower drinking ages than here have far *less* problems with drinking youths. Why? Because it's a rebellion thing. So perhaps lowering the drinking age would lessen drinking problems, DUI's included.


Tuesday, December 9, 2003 11:32 PM
You CAN rent a car at 18 from a couple of rental agencies. Enterprise is one of them, and no you dont' have to have oodles of insurance to do it. However you do have to have proof of insurance or buy their insurance policy for the length of your rental.

Check the fine print and you will find the minimum age as well as under 25 charges. I had to deal with this the first two times I went to ORlando.

I would definitely say it's easier just to take the Greyhound. $25 round trip is way cheaper too. Stay on point or at a hotel with transportaion to the park (although taxis in Sandusky are super cheap as well). Getting to other parks might be hard though. Enjoy the park for a few days (2-3), spend some time in Cleveland (the Zoo is fantastic and the rock & roll hall of fame isn't bad either), and perhaps find a way out to SFWOA. I think you would have no problem filling 5-6 days that way. Add on flying days and you're good.

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 11:43 PM
You can't make that statement without mentioning the cultural and societal differences in the those countries as well. What's good for one country doesn't automatically apply for another because there are so many other factors to consider.
Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:16 AM
But what about in countries like Canada with very similar societies? The fact that our country has a larger teenage drinking problem than any other I can think of is more than just coincidence stemming from "cultural and societal differences." The only societal difference is that it's not a problem there because it's not illegal.

-Nate *** Edited 12/10/2003 5:16:22 AM UTC by coasterdude318***

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:23 AM

Blaster_1578 said:
You CAN rent a car at 18 from a couple of rental agencies. Enterprise is one of them, and no you dont' have to have oodles of insurance to do it. However you do have to have proof of insurance or buy their insurance policy for the length of your rental.

Not true.

I'm 20 and after a car accident this summer (not my fault) I tried to get my rental car from Enterprise. They refused to rent to me unless I:
- Had full coverage (not just liability) from my insurance company
- Made a larger than normal deposit
- Purchased additional insurance from them

I have no points on my license, either.

Anyway, back to the topic. Dan- did you get my PM? Drop me a line.

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:40 AM

You're right it will go round in circles!!!

I'm based in the UK, and over here it's the individual vehicle that is insured - drivers under 25 are considered medium risk and have to pay more (although i do have 3 years' no-claims bonus, meaning i got something like 35% knocked off my last renewal premium), and drivers 17-21 are high risk.

To ilustrrate the point, my first car was a large family hatchback (Ford Sierra) with a 2.0 engine. In this country, 2L is considered a larger than norm engine for most cars, except the larger ones, where it is standard.

Insurance companies push the cost up the higher the engine capacity (bigger engine=faster car=higher risk) and the younger the age.

Age 18 = £1100, Age 19 = £850, Age 20 = £750, Age 21 = £650, Ages 22-23 different car, Age 24 £380. When i hit 25, a clause is added to the insurance allowing me to drive any vehicle with the owner's permission, and i become a low-risk driver.

Most rental companies in the UK won't allow ANYONE under 25 to drive a rental, and in the US I've found there tends to be a $15-$25 daily charge for between 21 and 25, plus additional insurance.


Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:13 AM
In Canada, when the drinking age was lowered, highway fatalities increased. Same thing happened in Australia. In Europe, the WHO Regional Office for Europe has set many goals for its member states for 2006, including delaying "the age of onset of drinking by young people" and to "control alcohol availability by addressing access, minimum age and economic measures, including pricing, which influence under-age drinking."

Saying that there is no drinking problem in Canada because the minimum age there is 18 is ridiculous. In fact, raising the minimum drinking age has been shown to cut alcohol consumption among teenagers. Besides, I would argue that teenage drinking is a bigger problem in Canada than it is here.

Penn State President Graham Spanier called underage drinking one of the greatest challenges facing higher education today in testimony to the House Majority Policy Committee. I don't think you'll hear him saying that the solution is to lower the minimum drinking age to 18.
*** Edited 12/10/2003 2:27:20 PM UTC by Gemini***

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:36 AM
I'm certainly not going to continue an off-topic discussion past this point, but I will say this: none of the "proof" you've offered will do anything to convince anyone of otherwise.

For instance, you change any law and there are immediate effects. Lower the drinking age, and for awhile people will just drink more (because it's more easily accessible). After the fad has worn off, the problems decrease. That's exactly what happened in Europe and Australia.

I never said there's *no* drinking problem in Canada or here. What I said was that it isn't a bigger problem elsewhere than here and - surprise! - we have the highest drinking age. I think (a) that's a bit more than coincidence and (b) the law certainly isn't working as planned.


Wednesday, December 10, 2003 9:41 AM
Enterprise will rent to 18 year olds, in certain states. Ohio is not one of them from what their website says. I dont know a whole lot on this situation because I've never rented a car though. When I was 20 years old my car was in a hit and run accident (I wasn't in the car it was parked) and it needed to be in the shop for about a week to repair all the damages. I called my insurance company and even THEY couldnt get a car rental place around here to rent me a car. I'm over 21 now and have it in my policy that I can rent a car through my insurance agency but that was not available to me until I was 21.

As for the drinking age thing. If I had to wait till I was 21 then everyone else can too! ;)

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:11 AM
All that you've stated is opinion. I see no proof that no other country has a bigger drinking problem than the U.S. Even if it was fact, I would attribute that to the behavioral patterns mentioned by Spanier, not whether drinking is or is not legal for a certain person.

But if that's what you want to believe, then so be it.

Back to coasters we go.

*** Edited 12/10/2003 3:12:41 PM UTC by Gemini***


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