Freestyle working to establish partnerships, has cash to survive economy

Just2coolyo said:
So yes I could sit here and completely breakdown Gonchar's comments and expose him as an idiot.

I seriously doubt that. But it might amuse us all if you tried.

2 funny. Yo.

Half-baked and mediocre. Sure this isn't Cedar Fair running this park? lol

They definitely didn't have a top creative staff when they re-named the rides.

They just bought the park and got it opened rather quickly. Just be thankful someone stepped in, or it would probably be dissambled as we speak and be thankful that Cedar Fair didn't get it so they could relocat the rides to their other parks!

Hahahaha.

Oh god.

What Gonch is calling mediocrity is the result of a business (in this case a theme park) trying to appeal to as broad an audience as possible. That's pretty much all theme parks have been doing/ continue to do to maximize revenues. Trying to please as many people as possible while pissing off as few as possible. As an aside, while a rock themed park could be considered edgy, using the Moody Blues and the Eagles as tie-ins to your marquee attractions is hardly cutting edge as far as music goes.

Could a theme park that appeals to a certain niche audience thrive and be profitable? Hard Rock tried and failed. Could you put Opryland in the same basket and say that parks themed to a certain musical genre can't make it? Or the various Bible parks that have been talked about-- does limiting your audience to a certain segment limit your chances for success? Is it just a case of saying it was bad marketing? It certainly seemed HRP took the attitude of "build it and they will come." You can't market a theme park, even one with a rock theme, the same way you do a chain of restaurants or a 50-city tour.

Hard Rock was expecting 3 million people last year, which would put it in the same league as Cedar Point and Kings Island, (and perhaps just as middle of the road?) Was it realistic to expect that many people for a park appealing to a certain audience? What if they aimed for 1 million? That could be a more realistic number to expect, but of course that severely limits revenue and funding for future projects.

I think it's a delicate balance because to be different you have to provide more than a theme park with a few shows or a rock concert/music festival that happens to have rides.

Change as little as possible.

Yeah but weren't the HRP owners threatening to file an IP lawsuit?

I just recently visited FMP without having been to HRP last season so I wouldn't know which was better. So maybe you can fill me in Gonch. What was so great about HRP that Freestyle lacks now? I can sort of see where you are going with this "mediocre" rant, but what did HRP do differently?

My original HRP trip report

Anything that's different from that is a start. :)

^You just KEEP rubbing it in...all with a six-hour drive from Gainesville? What was I doing that was SO important all summer last year? Argh! The moral of the story? Don't allow yourself to regret what you missed - go NOW!

What with the lawsuits pending and IP all over the place with that (B.S., fly-by-night, makeshift...ersatz?) holding company, there really was very little they could do but gut the place theming-wise, right? Other than the dark ride, it sounds like they've done the other stuff (marketing, partnerships, etc.) to make the business a success. The theming....hopefully will get filled back in over time under the the management. Maybe a deal with a major label or something?

My brother is visiting tomorrow. He caught WWW two days before it closed and Geauga a day before it closed.It should be closed by this weekend LOL

Bear, Your posts are still gold after all this time. You take the point that I try to make, but can't quite find the words, and so eloquently spill them out for everyone to eat up. You are still my favorite. :)

While I agree with your last post wholeheartedly, let me challenge you, just for fun. Why is Dollywood doing so well? Country music doesn't appeal to me at all, as well as a lot of other people. The country music theme should be limiting the interest that the public have about the park, and yet it thrives. I still want to go though, because of the cool rides.

mlnem4s said:
Why don't all of you let these folks, some who have YEARS of MANAGEMENT experience in the theme park business, do what they need to do to operate the park.

Yeah, how'd that work out for the first operators of the park with all of their experience?

LostKause said:
Why is Dollywood doing so well? Country music doesn't appeal to me at all, as well as a lot of other people. The country music theme should be limiting the interest that the public have about the park, and yet it thrives.

I'm pretty sure that country music, while prevalent at Dollywood, isn't the theme of the park. The park is themed to life and times in the Smokey Mountain region.

I knew someone would say that, but I disagree. I haven't been to Dollywood yet (I'm going sometime this year though!), but isn't it more of a music park? It was when it was starting out, and it was lacking in some of the attractions people expect to see at a theme park.

I never had been interested in DW before, but now I want to go because of the cool rides and attractions that appeal to me. I am even willing to endure the country music crap for a day or so. I'm sure there are many others who feel this way too.

Some of this idea could easily be attributed to how some people feel about Freestyle Music Park.

LostKause said:
I knew someone would say that, but I disagree. I haven't been to Dollywood yet (I'm going sometime this year though!), but isn't it more of a music park?

I didn't get that impression at all. It seemed more about life in and the history of the Smokies.

The music is indeed country, but given the theme, what would you expect?

Dolly is known for her music, but the park is more about her heritage.

The same reason Lord Gonchar liked the park is the same reason it failed. It was built for middle aged men. I think last year at HRP proved one of two things maybe both: 1) Middle aged men is too small of a market or 2) Myrtle Beach was too small of a market. I think with Freestyle we will find out if it was #2 but for the time being I will assume #1. I believe once the park is profitable then we can judge if this is another average park or if it is going to be something more.

Is 36 middle aged?

Ugh.

You might have a point and I've considered that as well. But then again, if I think back to what was there -aside from the artists licensed (which were chosen to cast the widest net possible) - it's really wasn't a creepy old guy place...for the most part.

I still think we can debate the theme all we want, but the issue wasn't anything to do with the 'park' aspect of it. It was not getting the message out and getting the wrong message out. Selling it as a theme park was not quite right. Selling it as part theme park, part entertainment venue, part Hard Rock style multi-use development, part hangout...you get the idea...would have cast a wide net and gotten them much closer to the numbers they needed. There's lots of people not interested in theme parks that would have still found HRP worth their time and money.

I also keep getting the feeling from reading many of these responses that people still aren't quite 'getting' what was actually there. It was closer to a Citywalk or Downtown Disney area with themed dining and shopping and live entertainment and shows that just happened to have a dozen or so really nice rides mixed in all tied together under the Hard Rock umbrella more than it was an amusement park with a rock music theme. And I just can't help believing that if a cahin of restaurants with that theme/name can thrive, that a full multi-use development style location with the same theme/name should do ten times as well.

I understand where so many people want to call it and think of it like a theme park (and that's even where the new owners seem to be heading...and the mistake the old owners made) but even looking back to that original TR of mine done three days after I visted, I already saw it as not quite a theme park, but more of an experience that could be enjoyed for a multitude of reasons by a multitude of people.

I just can't help thinking that kind of experience is going to do so much better in a touristy area like MB than another same old, same old theme park would.

I'd have had more fun there with the rides removed than with everything else watered down and the ride count and quality doubled. That's where the old owners failed - to get that message out. And that's why I think the new owners aren't exactly doing the right thing.

The restaurants arguably have a shared theme, and those are hardly creepy old guy hangouts.

And Gonch is right that mid-30's is not even remotely middle-aged. We need another decade to get there.

It's unfortunate that things with HRP went the way they did, because we'll never know for sure what was really wrong. Was it the concept? Poor marketing? Bad relationship with the locals? Bad timing with the economy? Poor financial planning-- not allowing enough cushion to absorb a bad year or two until the idea caught on? The new owners seem to be doing better with the marketing and partnering with other businesses in the area, but they've also changed the concept.

I'm not sure a comparison to the restaurants is valid. I don't know of anyone who flew to New York just to eat at Hard Rock. I was at one in Baltimore, but we were already in town and picked that out of all the other venues in Harborplace to go to. As it was last year, you would have had to travel to Myrtle Beach specifically to go to the park. It was never presented as just one of many other things to do in the area, because of the contentions between the owners and locals. And again, people familiar with the restuarants would not have had much idea what the place in Myrtle Beach was about, so why bother?

Gonch, you're probably looking for something like Musikfest ( http://www.musikfest.org/ ) with rides.

Don't worry-- you'll know you hit middle age when you go for your annual checkup, and your doctor greets you wearing "the glove" on his hand. :)

I've gone to HR in Baltimore too, as have the many families I visited with there for a volleyball tournament at the convention center. The same kinds of families that would go to Myrtle Beach and likely do something in the area like a theme park. I think it's absolutely valid to compare them, especially for the purpose of putting down the creepy middle-age guy theory.

I think it's all of the things you mentioned except for the concept. I'm really not convinced that was the downfall. They failed to execute in every way except that, the way I see it.

RatherGoodBear said:
Gonch, you're probably looking for something like Musikfest ( http://www.musikfest.org/ ) with rides.

Maybe.

I think in my head it's more established and less festival.

I know I keep going back to these multi-use development shopping center thingies, but that's really the mindset. A place with shopping, dining, various forms of entertainment (shows, street performers, outdoor venues, etc)...but also with some rides (and not carnival rides). The type of place that has family fun and games during the day, is a tween and teen friendly hangout in the evening and adult oriented live music and alcohol at night.

Take that and blanket the Hard Rock brand 'theme' over it all. :)

That's really what HRP had the core beginings of to me.

Jeff said:
I think it's all of the things you mentioned except for the concept. I'm really not convinced that was the downfall. They failed to execute in every way except that, the way I see it.

I do too. And I think if the mindset wasn't so focused on being a theme park, they had actually stumbled onto a greater concept that could've worked great in a tourist spot like Myrtle Beach.

When I think of what was great about our visit to us, it wasn't most of the theme park elements...and especially not in and of themselves. (the lone exception might have been NIWS and that's one of the things the new owners were determined to kill)

The old guys f'd up a great opportunity. The new guys aren't going the direction I would have. Fortunately, the got a great deal and the only way the park could fail is if the area just won't support a park there. (in which case you have to wonder how the original concept would've fared if marketed and run more appropriately)

Don't worry-- you'll know you hit middle age when you go for your annual checkup, and your doctor greets you wearing "the glove" on his hand. :)

*shudder*