Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:42 PM
How big of a difference is there between the B&M flyers and the Vekoma flyers? I have been on Air, and SUF but never on the Vekoma's. Also, for spring break I am going to Paramount Great America, is Stealth usually open or is it really luck if it's open on the day you are there.
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Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:13 PM
The restraints are alot different. Then there is how it get into the flying position. B&M's do it in the station and Vekoma's do it before the first drop. I prefer the B&M's but I think they are just way too short.

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-Sean Newman
*** This post was edited by SFgadvMAN 7/29/2003 8:14:18 PM ***

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Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:52 PM
For me the main difference is that the Vekoma models spend way too much time with trains on top of the track instead of in the flying position.

mOOSH

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A random Mooshter's Dawntionary listing: Dopeler Effect [n.] - the tendancy of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.

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Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:41 PM
Personally, I enjoy them both.

Vekoma
Roll over at top of hill is cool
Best loop on any coaster, love the droping sensation at the top
Nice helix

B&M
More comfortable restraints.
Pretzel loop is great.
Hanging first hill is nice.
Better capacity and reliability

Note, that while B&Ms restraints are more comfortable, Vekoma's aren't bad.

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Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:46 PM
Haven't been on a B&M flyer yet, but I live near SFA and Batwing NEVER runa at anything near capacity. As I understand it, there's a staffing issue becauses the ride has two stations, requiring two staffs. When I go (usually during the week) the park runs one train. This leads to the decision: Should I ride Batwing, or should I ride S:ROS 4-6 times front seat in the time it would take me to get thru Batwing's Line. If you insist on riding a Vekoma flyer, you are hereby warned to expect a longer line than the crowd in the park would otherwise lead you to expect, for a ride that is --IMO -- not worth waiting for more than once.

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I am the TickTockMan

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:43 AM
That's why the two latest B&M flyers only have 1 station instead of 2,I mean what good does the 2nd station do for the park & it's patrons if they havn't got the staff need to operate it.

In all honesty that's something SF should've really taken into consideration before they even considered buying the design in the first place.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:08 AM
Actually, BATWING, it makes more sense that the reason for having a single station is that it is more cost-effective than a double station and require fewer moving parts, which means less chance of a malfunction and less repair work over the life of the coaster.

mOOSH

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A random Mooshter's Dawntionary listing: Ignoranus [n.] a person who is both stupid and an @sshole.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:10 AM
If you have a good crew, there would really be no reason for the "second" station.

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-Rob
A.C.E. member since 1990
Posting @ Coasterbuzz since 2000
E.C.C. member since 2002

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:26 AM
Even when it's built with two stations, why couldn't they run two trains and just pass them through the same station?
Surely there's still a blocking zone before the station, right? Is it just a matter of re-programming?

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Touchè, teacher, touchè.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:28 AM
I have ridden both X-Flight and S:UF (Great Adventure) and I like X-Flight much better. I was expecting a much better ride from B&M. What a dissapointment! To me the Vekoma restraints feel more secure and more comfortable. I found S:UF to be boring after the pretzel. In my opinion X-Flight has a far better layout and a good balance of above/below the track elements. I also prefer the flip at the top of the lift to hanging on the lift. The anticipation is great.

I think the B&Ms would actually benifit from dual stations or at leat the ability to lower the train to sitting position on the brake run. I found that hanging form the restraints while waiting for the next train to dispatch a very unpleasent experience.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:41 AM
With X-Flight, Batwing, S:UF (both SFOG and SFGAdv) under my belt, I think Vekoma has a superior layout, but B&M has the superior technical design. Let B&M make the coaster with Vekoma's layout and you'd have the best of what we've seen so far.

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www.coasterimage.com
Dorney Park Visits in 2003: 15

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:45 AM
Agreed, Gonchar, that there's a lot of room for improvement in the B&M layout. After riding S:UF a couple of months ago, the main thought in my mind was, "Not bad, but I can't wait for version 3.0."

Later,
EV
-----
"Here's the thing about living in the past. If it was so good, then how come it didn't last? If it helps you, I'll put it in a phrase. Those were the times, but these are the days." - The Human League

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 9:27 AM
You asked for the difference. The difference like stated is that on the B&Ms as you know you load into the flying position before the lift. On Vekom the train is supposed to recline while engaging the lift hill. It did when I rode Batwing at SFA, but I heard other parks where having trouble with this feature.

It is a lot more better on Vekom to enter the position while on the lift because its a better transition. I have rode two flyers Batwing, and Superman Ultimate Flight at Sixflags Great Adventure. The major differences is the thrill factor I think Superman is so much more tame them Vekoms version of the flyer. The pretzel loop is great after that I think the ride lacks so much. I try to understand it, but I can't.

If the ride was made for all types of people to enjoy then it might be an excuse for the ride being slow. Because if a person is scared of a roller coaster, and everyone is telling them its not scary they don't care what anyone is going to say. Look at the ride your flying face down, and its going to be scary bottom line. Don't get me wrong the ride is good. However I think it is not great. Every time I have rode the ride everyone talks about how the first "loop" was great and the rest of the ride was OK.

To get back on the topic Vekom flyer really felt much more of a thrill ride to me then Superman maybe AIR is better then Superman I don't know never rode it. I think B&M has potential with it, but as for Vekom the trains just shake around the track, and the restraints felt uncomfortable to me, and the loading process is so much more time consuming VS B&Ms where you just pull down the harnesss. I rode Batwing opening season, and a season later it felt very rough.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:33 AM

ThemeDesigner said:
Even when it's built with two stations, why couldn't they run two trains and just pass them through the same station?
Surely there's still a blocking zone before the station, right? Is it just a matter of re-programming?

As far as Batwing goes, they can and they have. I've seen on more than one occasion they have run two trains through the one station. It had a significant impact on capacity too, cutting the wait time (suprisingly) by more than half. Why they choose *not* to do this mor often is a question *I* cannot answer.

lata, jeremy

--who will see his first B&M flyer 'in the flesh' in little over a week.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:33 PM
I know that the Vekoma flyers are supposed to recline on the lift hill, but this year, when I've ridden Batwing, it's reclined in the station. I also haven't seen it run more than one train this year during the week. And yes, the ride is rough (duh -- it's a Vekoma). I can tell after I get home that I've ridden it by the bruises on my shoulders.

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I am the TickTockMan

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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:50 PM
I've been on X-flight while they were running two trains through one half of the station. It was extremely unpleasant they essentially left you standing on your head for three or four minutes. I literally had to hold my head up as high as I could to keep from passing out. Why they couldn't have popped us back to the "sitting" position is beyond me, though.
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Wednesday, July 30, 2003 8:12 PM
Does anyone know if X-Flight has the coasters reclining on the lift yet or if they gave up on that? I havent been to SF:WoA in 2 years, I just dont bother until there is a new coaster, I then only get a Cp pass so I was curious if they were doing the yet or not?

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Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:10 PM
Don't forget Knoebels Flyers! ;)

I have yet to ride the B&M Flyers but I like the Vekoma models.

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Signature will be closed today. Sorry for the inconveinance.

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Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:10 PM
no they recline inside the station now

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Jay Vending the Best Amusement Park Job

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