Florida ticket prices go up, getting too high for some

Typically, if the line is long, but MOVING, people are relatively patient, even appreciative of the efforts of the staff.

At some point, though (*where* exactly varies from person to person), nobody cares how many employees you have or how many people are in the park, etc. If it's THAT crowded that the *average parkgoer* isn't having a good time, you may need to reconsider your maximum park capacity...or expand (obviously not the same for DL as for say MK). I've now seen reports from WIDELY varying sources all saying basically the same thing about DL/DCA that week...which, granted, IS the week not to go (*WE* know that, LOL).

But still, if you're going to allow a virtually limitless number of guests in, you need to be able to show them all a good time. I think Disney *could* be putting themselves in jeopardy of SF-izing themselves...if increasing the gate (and, economics says, reducing the number of guests)can make the experience "Magical" again, then that's the way to do it...

But it is my understanding that crowds like this are the exception, not the rule. Is this correct?

If this just occurs a handful of times a year during the 'peakiest' of peak seasons, then it really isn't as big an issue as we'd like to think.

I’m having a tough time understanding some of the logic…

It seems that some of you defend Disney’s piss-poor service/product during the busy times because the customer should have known and therefore it is the customer’s fault for even showing up!

Where does Disney’s responsibility fit in? Shouldn’t they understand that their product is lacking at specific times of the year? They need to decrease the crowds…period! If we are expected to predict crowded conditions...shouldn't they be prepared to deal with it? They cannot handle the numbers…and this says nothing of obvious safety issues that such overcrowding entails!

I’m a freaking Disney-lover to the umpteenth degree! I’m about as pro-business as you could be… I had a good time the last 4-5 years under the most extreme of over-crowding! I'll be at Orlando or Anaheim next Holiday season (I'm skipping Spring Break for Mexico this year)! This is not about me...this is about your average family that goes to Disney once/year or once every 5 years who does not keep up on park touring strategies and Fastpass nuances, etc... This family is getting shafted by Disney's inability to have manageable ticketing structures that allow for a good guest experience! Maybe Disney is so big that they do not need this family? Maybe there are enough fanboys like me to keep it going like this forever...? I have my doubts!

The issue is guest experience! There are no exaggerations to what I’ve said in this thread! Twenty minute restroom lines…45 minute clam chowder bowls…20 minute waits to get Fastpasses for some who thought they were waiting to get on the ride (you can imagine that scene)…I could go on-and-on…but I hope you understand how bad it has gotten! If you have not been on one of those days where they will not even let you walk to a ride directly in front of you due to crowd control…then I can only say that the experience is a real eye-opener!

For those who respond with “what can Disney do?” I think I’ve made it clear that they need to change their pricing structures to decrease demand! We can argue all day about the whys/hows…but believe me it is long past due!

If they truly make the majority of their money on the motels/food/amenities/etc…then why not just keep the gate free? I think we all know the answer to that question! The fact of the matter is that last week for Disneyland/DCA the gate might as well have been free! There was that many people and Disney could not even remotely control the crowds in a way for anybody to enjoy except the most veteran of Disney veterans! :-)

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If this just occurs a handful of times a year during the 'peakiest' of peak seasons, then it really isn't as big an issue as we'd like to think.

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When does it become an issue? If at your peak times, when most of the paying customers want to be there, you have a majority (or even a large percentage) of people leaving pissed…how can this not affect the long term viability of your company when you are in the amusement business!? I can see the truth in advertisement now! Disney…we only suck on weekends/holiday’s/summers and Spring Break! :-)

No matter how you slice it…Disney is doing a lousy job of controlling demand at the expense of their guest experience. You cannot continue to blame the paying customer for Disney’s inability to structure ticket pricing policies at levels which will allow manageable guest satisfactions! Disney can continue their current practices at their own risk! Reputations that take years to build up can sometimes come crashing down relatively fast in the amusement business!

…to whoever brought up the capacity issue…in general Disney was at full strength mid-day! Early morning when everybody thought they were getting a good jump on the crowds…they were running decreased capacity…I assume for either budgetary or crowd management purposes! Either way…it is not accurate to assume full effort was made to keep lines as short as possible. That Disney left long ago…

*** This post was edited by Jeffrey R Smith 1/5/2006 3:14:23 PM ***

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you have a majority (or even a large percentage) of people leaving pissed

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But, is that really what has happened? I'm not sure. For example, my brother's family went to DLR for a single day during Hell Week in '03-'04. They arrived at 11AM. They didn't have a lunch reservation. They had no plan. They could only stay until 5 or 6. In short, they did everything they could to have a lousy experience. All told, they saw a grand total of three attractions.

The amazing thing is that they still had fun, and actually went back the next year.

I think it's fair to ask whether DLR ought to consider lowering what they consider capacity. But, they don't need to use price to try to limit crowds year-round, because the parks aren't that busy year-round. For what it's worth, they do offer seasonal discounts; for example, right now through mid-spring, adults get in for the kids' price on advance-purchase tickets.

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When does it become an issue?

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Never. :)

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I can see the truth in advertisement now! Disney…we only suck on weekends/holiday’s/summers and Spring Break! :-)

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What amusement park doesn't that apply to? Heck, even the Holiday World site has a list of days they recommend not visiting if possible. I can't name a single park where the experience isn't reduced on certain days or at certain times of the year due to large crowds.

This is one place I think we actually underestimate the GP. They know parks are madhouses on weekends. The entire free world understands that Disney parks are a nightmare during the holidays.

I doubt this has any effect on the park in the long run. As long as I can remember reading about Disney parks during the holidays, it's always a horror story about the ridiculous crowds, yet year after year those same crowds are there again.

And besides, if it does negatively impact attendance, then you win. Maybe it's like a natural selection kind of thing? If these big crowds are such a turnoff to guests then they'll pass next time and the crowd problem will fix itself. However, my guess is that it'll never happen and each year DL will be packed to the brim with guests.

I doubt that Disneyland was at "full" staffing during that week. I hadn't been to any Disney park in probably 8 years before last week so I don't know what standard operating procedure is for Disney parks these days. But what I saw in terms of staffing was laughable considering the sizes of the crowds. Most of the attractions had no staff to monitor the lines. The first staff you would see was when you were ready to board the ride. The result? Rampant line jumping. In one 80 minute wait for California Screaming I counted 8 instances of groups linejumping. Apparently people feel that if one member of their party is in line then they don't have to wait with them until they feel like it.

Also, considering this was the first time that I had ever seen the FastPass system it was extremely confusing what line I was standing in and where I should go to actually get in the line. It's amazing what a couple hundred bucks a day would have done to make the experience more enjoyable. Fair enough, Disney will not get my couple hundred bucks next time I plan a vacation.
*** This post was edited by Mulfinator 1/5/2006 3:34:00 PM ***

Mulf...I have not fought since 7th grade! I’m the type of guy who runs his mouth and then hides! I don't like pain too much!

On 12/29 I was in line for Space Mountain (about 20 minutes into it) when no less than 8 groups cut in front of us at various openings! They were too far ahead of me to do anything about it! Guests seem upset…but they were too meek to say anything sans my loud mouth from the back! I guess Disney did not think anybody would want to ride Space Mountain as they had no staffing there either! They were too busy protecting guests from entering Adventureland!

I literally told my wife that she may have to leave the line and bail me out of jail if anybody got close enough to me and cut! I was steamed! If the park wasn't going to stop them...then old "Chuck Norris" Smith was ready to spring into action! I was fully prepared to fight and get my butt kicked if need be to prevent more cutting! Funny thing is...my wife (the easily embarrassed type who never causes waves) gave me full support! :-) I even recruited 2 other guys to form a small vigilante army for line control! Needless to say...nobody ever cut in front of me...so I'm still in one piece!

...Oh yea...this was the Fastpass line!

...I feel your pain! :-)

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What amusement park doesn't that apply to?

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I've never seen anything like Disney last week! Again...to compare last week's crowds and Disney's woeful ability to control them to any experience at other parks during crowded conditions is not an accurate comparison! I guess you need to see it with your own eyes to understand!

I was at Magic Kingdom for New Years Eve 1999...this once-in-a-century event paled to Anaheim last week!

I guess you had to be there to understand how rediculous it was. And how inappropriate it was for Disney to not shut down the gates! They are very lucky that there was not a major stampede-like accident during the parades!

Did I miss something or was Cypress Gardens left out of the news article? I wonder if they're raising their price this year? It seems to be the hidden gem of the Orlando area.

Cypress is the flat ride capital of FL to be sure. "Hidden gem", though? Maybe.....once Starliner gets rebuilt. Right now the coaster collection is lacking - Kennywood can get away with having no inversions on coasters, Cypress, not so much.

My guesses as to the reason Cypress didn't make the article: their pricing isn't changing, the park isn't really Orlando-area, and it's not run by one of "the big three".

Disney may always be the "destination" park for international tourists....but for locals, Cypress is well-suited to mrket segmentation. The concerts, from what I understand, are extremely popular. And who WOULDN'T want to see Lee Ann Rimes or Big and Rich? ;)

Jeffery, I think the public can 'play the game' better than you imagine, with the possible exception of DL and DCA -- They are unique in that they have a very large local population who may go to the park on a whim during major holiday seasons.

WDW is a little different in that most visitors are resort guests. (Also, locals are also much more likely to be familiar with the tourism industry than their California counterparts.) Transportation and accomodation are the biggest expenses for the GP going to Orlando. Even the most naive GP will know when the parks will be busy. The clues are obvious -- in peak season, airline prices double and resort prices may triple or quadruple. These are financial incentive clues that the GP can get from any airline web site, travel agent resort package brochure, or AAA guide. Raising MK admission prices a few bucks for Christmas holidays will have no effect compared to multiplied cost of getting to and staying in Orlando.

That said, I hope that Disneyland considers reducing their park capacity based on the crowd issues from last week. There is such thing as too much of a good thing.