Flight of Fear Block Brake

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CoasterDiscern said:
I wouldn't say people of all ages enjoy them. I highly doubt everyone who rides all three coasters enjoy it. I completely disagree.

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You disagree because that's not what I said.

I said riders of all ages enjoy them, I didn't say every single person who rides them enjoys them, and I'd argue, in fact that there is no coaster in the world that 100% of riders like. Small children freak out on kiddie coasters, adults get dragged on coasters when they don't really like them, etc.

Chuck's got the right idea here, the point was that HW has some of the most intense coasters in the world and I've seen the youngest of kids ride the Raven more than 40 times in one day, including those bat-out-of-hell type rides at night.

And again, this is a park that had over 1 million visitors last year. I'm glancing over at Mitch's Steel Coaster Poll and there are tons of intense rides at new parks in the top ranks. All three S:ROS's, SFH's Goliath, Storm Runner, Xcelerator, Deuling Dragons, KK, and TTD are all built in recent years at "big" parks.

Of course, what a "big" parks is is somewhat subjective, as is what an "intense" coaster is, but I still think the large park theory is garbarge. I see no pattern, or even a trace of one. Would love to see someone try to suss one out... *** Edited 10/20/2006 11:50:52 AM UTC by matt.***

I usually don't complain about block brakes on rides because for the most part, they just slow the train down to some degree.

But on FOF this year when I rode it, this MCBR might as well be called the station brake. It pretty much brings the train to a stop. It feels after that like someone after the brake is pushing the train down the next hill and you just drag ass to the end of the ride.

I still love this coaster but that brake now just kills the second half of the course.

That is the thing, the block brake is not like most that trim it a little. Even vortex has the brake on softer. It does look like its going to be this way from now on, I doubt they go back to trimming the speed less.

Matt:

Those coasters you listed are at big parks. However those parks cater to thrill seakers and don't draw nearly as much of a family crowd as kings island does. Cedar Point and Most of the Six Flags parks add coaster after big coaster. Cedar Point though operates their rides much better and is much cleaner and better guest service. I do understand trimming a wooden coaster and have no problem with trims on the Beast or other rides.

Wooden coasters have to maintain their track and structure and those trims help do that along with lower maintenance cost. Not sure too many people remember, but when the Beast first got its magnetic brakes, it didn't have a brake on its first drop until mid august. That year it was down if I remember correctly 2 complete days to do track work. Also after the season the turn after the first drop was rebuilt and reprofiled. Maybe there is a good reason why they trim you on the first drop.

On another note, I wonder why Mean Streak does not go with magnetic brake on its first drop instead of the fin brake they have now. It would be less moving parts and also provide a smoother braking and consistant trimming of speed.

the only reason the beast needs trimmed at all is NON ARTICULATED TRAINS.

Do your research.

Chuck

Is that based on your expert engineering opinion?

^Jeff, he is so jaded with HW that any other park in existence is inferior.

Me?

No, Voyage is having it's share of problems as well.

The Trains on The Beast tear the crap out of the track, If they were MF trains I bet even unbraked the trackwook would be cut by 2/3rds. If they were two bench rear wheel articulated PTC's I bet it would be reduced by 1/4th as it was swithing from four bench to three.

Quite honestly, The Beast is the only coaster I know that bounces on perfectly staight track. The trains are flexing.

Al Collins even said, Not enough banking for the speed Beast goes. OK, WHY? Answer because the non articulated trains can't handle the banking needed.

Chuck, who says thats his expert opinion and Im sticking too it. *** Edited 10/20/2006 3:33:44 PM UTC by Charles Nungester*** *** Edited 10/20/2006 3:34:21 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

Yeah, Beast can't take the straight trains very well. I need to import the video clip I took on the tour at Beast Bash, shows the train jackhammering like crazy on a pretty shallow section.

How much have you worked on The Beast, Chuck? I'm fine if you have your opinion, but you gotta back it up.

Blue Streak's trains flex a little on the lift, and they're fundamentally not that different than the trains on The Voyage. A certain engineer that would probably not want me to speak for him says the construction of the ride has a whole lot more to do with its durability than the trains that run on it.

Hey, at least The Beast is running fast enough to keep the train stuck to the outside rail through the curves. If there is enough slop in the gauge, if the track is lubricated enough, and if the banking is shallow enough, that works fine. And it doesn't explain the jackhammering, which is basically the track bouncing up and down on the structure. You aren't going to get that from the train not being able to go around curves.

Getting back to the topic at hand, at least Flight of Fear doesn't have those shoulder bars anymore. When the train stops on the mid-course, the train goes much too slowly through the helii and the half-corkscrew at the end of the ride. Premier's guide wheels are sprung, so you don't get a lot of hunting around because of the low speed, but you do get the problem of riders hanging sideways in the train as it goes around the helix, and dangling from the lap bar in the half-Corkscrew.

Back when the ride had shoulder bars and uncontoured bench seats, it also ran with the dead-stop on the mid-course. I learned the hard way that if you dangle a couple hundred pounds of Dave from an arm that is pinned in between the car wall and the shoulder bar, the result is a dislocated shoulder!

--Dave Althoff, Jr. <- has had lasting injuries from [ 2] Kings Island coasters.

First of all, being jaded has nothing to do with thread. Second, it is the trains and he is right when he says do your research. For the trains to use magnatism would require huge amounts of money and parts, that is why they are non articulated trains. They use friction effects of electric currents and that is why you hear the pressure sound when going over them. To have a high tech braking system would be unrealistic on all acounts.

No, I haven't worked on The Beast but comparing a coaster that takes it's turns at a relativly low clip (Blue Streak and Beast isn't quite fair) IMHO Racer is far more comparable.

Rideman, Ive thought for some time that Beast was strucuturally inssuficient. I think that rebuild on the fan curve says a lot about that.

Jeff your right as well, The structure has a ton to do with how long it last, However I see them replacing sections of Beast track two and three times a year anymore and the helix almost every year now. It' didn't used to be that way.

Im not a expert, I'll admitt that. I've talked with a few though. One that said PKI's coasters hold up remarkably well for what they are.

Chuck

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CoasterDiscern said:
First of all, being jaded has nothing to do with thread. Second, it is the trains and he is right when he says do your research. For the trains to use magnatism would require huge amounts of money and parts, that is why they are non articulated trains. They use friction effects of electric currents and that is why you hear the pressure sound when going over them. To have a high tech braking system would be unrealistic on all acounts.

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Obviously you didn't do your research, Beast has the same trains it's always had and was changed to MAGNETIC braking in 2002. So was Jack Rabbit at Kennywood a year or two prior.

Yeah, it took a little money to change over but mostly in the braking mechenisims alone and not the trains, All they did was add brake fins to the skids of the trains. Basically how a clamp brake system works anyway which Beast has both clamps and magnetics.
*** Edited 10/20/2006 6:02:25 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***

So whats the problem here then. Are we not happy with the breaking system? Why would they use clamps "and" magnetics? What is the purpose?

Magnetics cannot completely stop the train. They have to have a friction brake for that.

The coaster used to have skid brakes, They changed em to magnetics out on the course. Magnetics can only slow the train, They must use clamps to stop it. I think their happy with it.

It was just a mention of why they slow it in the first place that ever brought BEAST up.

The subject is FOF and to the best of my knowledge, There is no real reason to brake it and in many cases reasons it shouldn't be braked.

Chuck

Oh, but there is a reason behind everything my dear charles. There is a little tiny answer I'm searching for, that I'm not sure of myself.

It might not make sense why they brake them the way they do to all of us, but I'm pretty sure an answer I'm looking for I might not recieve. Sometimes an answer is not given, instead it is best for the amagination to fuigure out. ;)

*** Edited 10/20/2006 6:32:35 PM UTC by CoasterDiscern*** *** Edited 10/20/2006 6:33:48 PM UTC by CoasterDiscern***

what? that Beast had a rear end collision with the old skids durring the rain?

Or the reason FOF is braked mid course?

Your right charles, but I bet it was a very unexpected mistake. Could the rain do that to another woodie, or not. I personally don't think so, when beast is so big and powerful. I may be wrong.