Editorial on current Walt Disney World prices

I've read plenty of reviews and trip reports on here and elsewhere that make it hard to believe that the author set out to have fun.

Yeah. What is defined as a great time? It all depends, and I'm going to guess that "spending a lot of money to get into a park and ride five things in ten hours" isn't going to be the case with many. I agree that there is something to be said for the experience- walking around, being in that environment, enjoying the sights when it gets dark, etc. But I'm also going to reiterate that, as an AP that gets to spend a lot of time in the parks despite living a thousand miles away, my expectations are different than those of a family vacationing at the parks.

Andy: You're right, I was only referring to ticket prices. The changes alone could increase a family's ticket costs by $1k. We can sit here and repeat the belief that prices can continue to increase without any effect, but when a family vacation to Orlando increases by that amount, it's eventually going to price the experience away from those without the disposable income- which seems to be a lot of people these days. Money is a finite thing for many, and even if the desire is there, the finances may not be.

I do fill some of my time with "non wait" still like Carousel of Progress, the Hall of Presidents, the American Adventure, and even the Circlevision films, but most times I find there are waits for things that used to be walk-ons, like the Peoplemover.

I have yet to see anyone say in this thread that the price increases won't reach a limit at some point, just that they haven't gotten there yet and that Disney knows where that limit is more than armchair theme park executives.

So you were expecting this conversation to be one populated with executives "in the know"?

It's a coaster enthusiast site, populated by coaster enthusiasts with varying degrees of knowledge, but plenty of opinions. If we all knew the answers, this discussion would be pretty dull.

bigboy said:

I have yet to see anyone say in this thread that the price increases won't reach a limit at some point, just that they haven't gotten there yet and that Disney knows where that limit is more than armchair theme park executives.

This.

However, I'm gonna go ahead and come as close to saying it as anyone will.

Obviously, there's a price that stops people from coming. Tickets won't sell tomorrow at $10,000 each, for example.

But it's not as hard as we try to pretend it is. Right now Disney has a product where demand is outpacing price by a longshot. They can't seem to raise the price enough to curb the demand.

So you keep raisining the price. And when demand wavers, you're there.

That's when you create more demand. (Star Wars, et al?)

With that all said, they priced me out (and likely many, many others) a long time ago. It doesn't matter. We keep talking about pricing certain people out. So? Premium products exist. Disney is easily the premium theme park vacation - so much so that it's barely a theme park vacation as much as it's a larger vacation experience. It isn't necessarily about riding rides like a day at Six Flags, it's about experiencing Disney.

So you were expecting this conversation to be one populated with executives "in the know"?

You don't have to be an executive in the know to know that they know more than you know. :)

It's a coaster enthusiast site, populated by coaster enthusiasts with varying degrees of knowledge, but plenty of opinions. If we all knew the answers, this discussion would be pretty dull.

Trust me. You're there. The horse is dead.

Rob Ascough said:

We can sit here and repeat the belief that prices can continue to increase without any effect, but when a family vacation to Orlando increases by that amount, it's eventually going to price the experience away from those without the disposable income...

Let me know when that happens. In fact, let's revisit this thread in a year, then five and ten and more and see.

I put the burden of proof on you. I say it isn't going to eventually price enough people out to matter to Disney's bottom line.

I don't know. Maybe this sounds similar to conversations we've had in the past, and maybe it IS a repeat of those conversations, but I still have to wonder if there will come a breaking point. I mean, there has to at some point. It's money.

Just because there's a number that does start to damage the bottom line, doesn't mean Disney ever goes there. There's no reason to believe they will.

We all agree. A "too high" number exists. You just seem a lot more sure than anyone else that Disney will reach it.

Beyond that, there's nothing to discuss except you repeating, "Yeah, but what if?"

What if? Well, then Disney corrects their pricing trajectory. Problem solved.

Lord Gonchar said:

So you keep raisining the price.

Rob Ascough said:

If we all knew the answers, this discussion would be pretty dull.

I'm no detective, but it seems that you're implying that it currently isn't.

You know, you all might be right. Disney might very well be trying to price out "the middle class," however you'd like to define it. Why might they want to do this? Because the middle class is shrinking. From that article:

the nation’s aggregate household income has substantially shifted from middle-income to upper-income households, driven by the growing size of the upper-income tier and more rapid gains in income at the top. Fully 49% of U.S. aggregate income went to upper-income households in 2014, up from 29% in 1970. The share accruing to middle-income households was 43% in 2014, down substantially from 62% in 1970.2

Disney has been chasing this trend for a long time now. When they first introduced the dining plans, the one marketed most heavily included one sit-down meal per day. Guests, on average, certainly didn't eat one sit-down meal per day. But, Disney wasn't marketing to the average guest. They were marketing to the upper end of their existing guest demographic. The constant addition of extra-cost, premium experiences is not just a money grab (though I suppose it is that). It is also creating an experience that is more appealing to people with more discretionary income. Sure, the average person is not going to plunk down $140 to spend three hours in the Magic Kingdom with a vague Villains theme, no matter how short the lines are. But, the fact that it exists might make the overall vacation experience more pleasant for those who are not thinking about whether or not they can afford what a Disney vacation costs, but instead are wondering where they should go this year given they can spend that much or more.

Rob Ascough said:

So you were expecting this conversation to be one populated with executives "in the know"?

I suggested nothing along those lines. You keep trying to convince everyone that there's a limit to Disney's price increases and no one in this thread has disagreed with that point. That's all I was pointing out. My line about armchair executives wasn't relevant to that point.

Lord Gonchar said:

So you keep raisining the price.

Vater said:

If that doesn't catch on as an honest-to-goodness financial term, there is no God.

I've enjoyed following this thread. And, although I've been entertained reading everyone's opinions the issue still has me scratching my head. For, my family is taxed in a category "above the median" and yet I found Disney's prices to be too rich for my blood. I understand this is me interjecting my own bias and perhaps disconnect, but it seems preposterous that so many people are spending so much money on a family vacation to a Disney property, knowing that for most of those family's such a spend is a noticeable percentage of their yearly income.

I promise I'm not trying to oversimplify your point, but different people are going to have different vacation preference and will value vacations differently. For my family and with my daughter at that sweet spot age (8 years old now), we saw a great deal of value and fun in hitting up some form of Disney 4 years in a row - WDW as a family, DLR as a family, WDW for the adults, and WDW as a family with my brothers family. The value shot up on the last trip with a bounce back deal booked on the adult trip that included a room discount and free dining. As much as we like a Disney trip and, apparently a lot of other people do too, I totally get that not everyone sees the same value in it.

I understand bigboy and appreciate your clarification. I'm not saying people don't receive value in taking a trip to a Disney property nor that these people feel that the value received was worth the money paid. I'm merely interjecting my opinion that "I don't get it."

"Raisining the Price" - The act of steadily increasing the price of a product, commodity, or other object of value with a demand that is outpacing price until such demand begins to shrivel and dry up, you know, like a raisin.

Genius, really.

Quite accidentally, really...

Brian Noble said:

You know, you all might be right. Disney might very well be trying to price out "the middle class," however you'd like to define it. Why might they want to do this? Because the middle class is shrinking.

Yeah, it's shrinking, but that narrative keeps implying that it's because people are getting poorer. That's not the case. Most of the "disappearing" middle class is graduating to a richer class, not poorer. In fact, the macro trend over the last 50 years has been relatively flat with 12-15% of Americans below the poverty level.

So with that said, why wouldn't Disney chase the people who can afford it? It's a growing segment of the population.

BrettV said:
What were your thoughts on the After Hours event? I imagine the experience there would be similar to what a true slow season day would have been like back in the day. Was it truly 3 hours of having the run of the place? If so, I would absolutely see the value in it, given the current crowd levels even during regular seasons.

Yes, it was like back in the day. Other than the included ice cream and pop, it was just a ton of short lines. Waited less than 20 minutes for 7 dwarves, maybe 5-10 minutes for Peter Pan, walk right onto the next boat for Small World which had as high as a 40-minute wait during the day.

Definitely shorter lines than the Christmas Party last year, or the Halloween Party the year before. In 3 hours, we did:

• Jungle Cruise
• Pirates of the Carribean
• Haunted Mansion
• Peter Pan
• Small World
• 7 Dwarves (twice)
• Space Mountain
• Buzz Lightyear
• TTA (which had been over 30-minute wait earlier in the day as well)
• enjoyed Mickey ice cream bars and a frozen banana

Wait. In what world does TTA (Peoplemover, right?) ever had a 30 minute line? I don't think I've ever seen more than 10 people in the station for it.

In general, I am also sort of aghast at the number of people who will pay some thousands of dollars to be at Disney and then another few hundred dollars for a VIP tour or after hours or early morning magic. But then again, I'm sure there are lots of people who would be aghast that I spent many thousands of dollars to be there in the first place.

I can totally understand people who don't see the value because I used to be one for majority of my life. Then I had kids and began to see Disney through the eyes of toddlers and tweens and now we can't get enough. If it were up to me we would literally spend every dollar of our leisure money on Disney and I would think it was worth it. Thank goodness my wife has more common sense and has limited us to about one trip every 18-24 months.

In a world where Disney clearly isn't hating poor people enough ;)

No, seriously, I had never witnessed the Magic Kingdom that busy, but that seems to be my thought more often in the last few years.

We thought the TTA line was a fluke when we first saw it. We arrived in that area maybe 10-15 minutes before our time for a FastPass on Buzz, and thought TTA would be the easy time-killer. They had a cast member standing closer to the Astro-Orbiters elevator than to the TTA entrance with the sign on a pole to help guests find the end of the TTA line.

Then we looked over and saw a queue to get to the FastPass entrance for Buzz and decided we should jump in line. It went behind the FP kiosk, back towards the entrance, then out into the midway in front of the kiosk. This line also had a cast member helping guests find the end of it. Not sure what was going on operationally but it took close to 15 minutes in this line to get to the outdoor Magic Band tap point.

The TTA line was still that long when we got off the ride. Completely anecdotal, but this is also the first time we've seen Aunt Polly's open on Tom Sawyer Island, and the Tomorrowland Terrace was open during the day as well, which we don't see very often.

Before this trip, we were in the "No way in heck would we spend more money on a 3-hour event after paying to be at Disney" camp. Seeing the crowd levels the first night we flew in had us thinking about it. The second night we had an RSVP to a DVC-hosted complimentary event at Hollywood Studios that was similar to the after-hours events. We got so much done that night it convinced us the paid night might be worth it.