Dueling Inverters

Friday, December 5, 2003 8:30 PM
First i want to say hi to the fellow coasterbuzzers. I have been thinking, have we seen the first and last dueling inverter or is there something that can be done with it. From what i see it would be almost impossible to come up with another layout but hey, anything is possible...........

i just want to know other people thoughts on this situation.

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Friday, December 5, 2003 8:39 PM

coasterbruh said:From what i see it would be almost impossible to come up with another layout

There must be something wrong with your vision then...

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Friday, December 5, 2003 8:39 PM
I don't know what you're talking about, but if you tell me the name I'll find it.
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Friday, December 5, 2003 8:40 PM
Anything is possible with time, some smart engineers, and most of all...money - which by the way is probably why there is only one set of dueling inverted coasters.
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Friday, December 5, 2003 8:44 PM

The Shy One said:


There must be something wrong with your vision then...


Im talking about a totally different layout besides Dueling Dragons..........Dueling dragons is a very well thought out layout. i can imagine what B&M went thru inorder to have the "close calls" in sync.

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Friday, December 5, 2003 10:02 PM
No, no. He's right. There exists, in all the expanse of the universe, only one possible layout for a dueling inverted coaster. I've heard rumors of a second layout existing in an alternate space-time continuum, but it's not likely.

Walter and Claude just happened to get really lucky that Universal's checkbook was large enough to allow them to continue their research in quantum mechanics and that they had enough space to build test their discoveries.

He's clearly polished up on his Interstellar Physics for Dummies, Vol 2: Stupid Internet Stuff book. Maybe the rest of us should catch up?

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Friday, December 5, 2003 10:22 PM
Dueling Dragons is such an ingeneous Idea , it's freaky.

1.It's in sync the whole way.
2.IT"S IN SYNC THE WHOLE WAY.
3.It's a beemer.
4.You can get off one beemer , and get right on the next, without having to head cross-park.

It's an Idea I can't really see being Duplicated, because no parks that don't already have an Invert really have the Money , and most parks will just go with the old school sit-down because it's easier.

-----------------
Battleball is the greatest game known to mankind.

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Friday, December 5, 2003 10:47 PM

Chernabog said:


He's clearly polished up on his Interstellar Physics for Dummies, Vol 2: Stupid Internet Stuff book. Maybe the rest of us should catch up?


Lol lol lol...........well thanks. Actually im currently in my second year of school studying mechanical engineering (trying to become a coaster designer). If there is another layout i would love to see it just to see what elements it incorporates and what the near-misses would be. Now personally i have came up with a design for a standard dueling looping coaster with several fly-by's and things of that nature..........but i did it when i was in the corp and i lost it some where.............man it was awsome........and realistic

by the way..............does anyone know how much dueling dragons cost (just the coaster not the themeing) *** Edited 12/6/2003 3:51:39 AM UTC by coasterbruh***

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Friday, December 5, 2003 10:55 PM
It would be even better as a mobius. ;)
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Friday, December 5, 2003 11:17 PM
Actually those type of coasters doesnt have a "wow" factor to them. its nothing really special about them except you exit differently than you enter the coaster. now if they ran it twice so you can be able to experience both "tracks" then i would see somethign special about the mobius tracked coaster. but until then...........their just a racing coaster to me............

hummm..............maybe i should post this in the racer thread lol lol!!

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 2:26 PM
Before all these posts clarified that he was talking about B&M inverted coasters, I seriously thought he was wondering about alternate layouts for Chance inverters. I'm not sure if its possible for this thread to make less sense, but that certainly had me confused. :)
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Saturday, December 6, 2003 3:17 PM
Did anyne else experience basically no dueling effect on Dueling Dragons? I mean the trains were perfectly in sync and I was in the front and it just did nothing to add to the ride experience.

I think that is one reason we may not see anymore of those. They are cool to look at but the dueling aspect really does nothing anywhere close to what a standard dueling coaster does. *** Edited 12/6/2003 8:18:45 PM UTC by Bosshawk***

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 4:13 PM
It only depends on what the park wants. If some park wants a dueling invert and is willing to pay the price of it they will get it. A ride manufacturer will basicly build what the park wants as long as it's possible and the park will pay for it.

I'm not sure what Dueling Dragons cost to build. Just based on other invert prices I'm guessing around $20 million for both of them without themeing. Give or take around 2-5 million.

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 4:18 PM

Bosshawk said:


I think that is one reason we may not see anymore of those. They are cool to look at but the dueling aspect really does nothing anywhere close to what a standard dueling coaster does.


I couldn't disagree more. Sitting in the front seat and speeding straight toward the other train, then up into the vertical loop and just barely missing the other riders' feet is one of the best coaster moments in the world. It's the "standard" dueling coasters (Gwazi, for instance) that do nothing for me.

-Nate

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 5:42 PM
I think the main reason that we don't see any more Inverted Duelers is because not many parks are willing to invest in two expensive Inverted coasters that would take up some space, not to mention maintain the equipment Universal uses to weight the trains so they meet at certain locations throughout the course.

Dueling Dragons is fun when you notice the other train speeding under you. Makes you fill as if your legs are going to be torn off.

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 6:41 PM
It's all about how much you're paying attention to the ride if you notice the duel or not. First time I rode Lightning Racer, I didn't even notice the other trian since I was so taken back by the layout. The way-too-few rides I've had since though, I've noticed the other train, cause I'm not in a daze cause of the layout. Same thing with DD - although from what I remember, the other train and the theme run neck and neck for my secondary attention when I'm riding!

And what is with people ripping topics calling Inverted coasters "Inverters" for thinking that they're talking about Chance Inverters. I still don't even know what a Chance Inverter is and frankly I don't care - if there's a more coaster-geeky, looky-what-I-know-and-you-don't, it's calling someone for using a well-known slang term which just happens to be the same as the company name for some obscure flat ride that it amazes me you have memorized anyway. Just give it up already, you knew what he meant.

And my third point - dude, there are an infinite number of possible elements that could be dueled. Locking loops, multiple-twists a-la Lightning Racer, cobra rolls that face each other. The possibilities are endless, but I think the whole dueling thing is a lot like stand-ups. They had their time in the sun, now they're sort of cliche', especially when the boom in building is over.

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Sunday, December 7, 2003 3:19 AM

Dukeis#1 said:


Dueling Dragons is fun when you notice the other train speeding under you. Makes you fill as if your legs are going to be torn off.


You don't need the dueling aspect to achieve this sensation. Just ride Deja-Vu. At least for me being tall, I feel my legs are going to be ripped off flying by the wooden platform that was installed.

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Sunday, December 7, 2003 12:26 PM

coasterdude318 said:
Sitting in the front seat and speeding straight toward the other train, then up into the vertical loop and just barely missing the other riders' feet is one of the best coaster moments in the world.

Agreed , especially after the first half of Fire.

----------------------
....which is better than Ice by far.

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Tuesday, December 9, 2003 6:37 PM
The close calls on Dueling Dragons are pretty damn cool, btu B&M didn't come up with the concept, nor the system that measures the trains as they go up the lift which then off-sets them by weight.

In an interview with the 3rd in charge on the whoe Islands of Adventures project, he explained that the three moments of dueling were very important during the design process as wells as making them all line up through the mouth's of the two Dragons on the ground. Universal themselves came up with the measauring system that's on the lift, and they did the complex algorithm of how the trains needed to be positioned in order to meet up the the right moments

He also talked about testing out how the Hulk's launch tunnel would feel by welding two boxcars together, tilting them up at the lift's angle, and then attaching a big weight to their seats that went out the top of the boxcars, which they would then let drop to simulate 1 through 6 G's of acceleration depending upon the weights used. Sounds like something they would do on Fear Factor. :)

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Tuesday, December 9, 2003 7:38 PM
A weight drop launch that isn't routed through a bunch of pulleys will never acheive more than 1G of acceleration.

I'm also not convinced about Universal doing the train weighing algorithm. I wouldn't doubt for a second that Universal approached B&M with the idea for the dueling aspect and the idea for the weighing to make sure the trains made the duels, but there's no reason for them to be calculating the algorithm.

First of all, (and I am by no means a coaster designer) I would imagine it would be no more complicated than a first order differential equation, if even that. Secondly, B&M built the ride and the trains and know the ins and outs of the stats (physical properties rather than height and speed) of the trains and layout. Third, B&M already already calculates all the speeds, forces (including friction) etc. for the entire layout when they build the coaster. Why hand them over to Universal instead of just looking at their CAD and figuring it out themselves?

Something about that story doesn't add up. *** Edited 12/10/2003 12:41:54 AM UTC by ApolloAndy***

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