Dragster shut down after riders injured by debris

I said it earlier, but it bears repeating with all the Intamin bashing. I still think Intamin has viable rides. Collosuss is very popular at Thorpe. More of those should be built. And I think Storm Runner and Xcellerator are running pretty reliable.

Ride design is a risky business. Always looking for the next big thing and trying to one up each other. There are plenty of examples littered though history even back to the 1920's of designs that failed. For all the bashing that B&M gets for their similar formula in their designs, you have to give 'em credit for sticking with the tried and true.

Seems like manufactures can't win with enthusiast. If you stick with the basics you are declared boring for playing it too safe with your designs. And on the flip side, you can be slammed for taking some risk. So what's the answer? Damned if you do, damned if you don't!!

Bashing Intamin seems to be the lastest thing to do, so ask no further questions. Did anyone consider that complex machines like coasters are puzzled together by various specialised contractors from all around the globe?

For example, the hydro motors are built by a german company, which is otherwise not related to Intamin. (And from what I understand they messed up stuff with that motor too)

We all know (except Coasterguy) that all the eighties "Intamin" rides are actually Giovanola products.

I am pretty sure that the cables are not done by Intamin inhouse too.

There are certainly not many companies who are able to provide special cables like that. I would guess that military suppliers would be the first choice for specialised material like this.

Its good to know that industry people are not so quick at jumping to conclusions and I am sure we will see lots of products with the Intain plate in the future.

thecoasterguy said:

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First of all, it is interesting to see the news handle the accident in the same way that they do with any accident and for everyone to flip and say that they news is now being unfair

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There is a reasonable explaniation for that.

Can't blame Rider Error: The people were properly secured in their seats... metal hit them, not vice versa.

Can't blame Operator Error: The people were secured correctly and the ride was launched correctly. (Besides, this was a CF park, not an SF park (or any other non CF park for that matter)... operations can not be questioned... even if it was a result of something an operator did... which in this case it was not.)

Can't blame Design Flaw: Intamin has created some of the "Greats"... Millenium Force, TTD, so it just can't be a design flaw. To admit that it is a possible design flaw is to admit that the company responsible for some of the "Greats" is now flawless.

Can't blame maintenance: TTD is at a CF park, not an SF park (or any other non CF park for that matter), so it just can't be a maintenance problem.

Can't be because TTD is too big and too fast for current technology: Nope... not this record holder.

Can't be any of these. So that leaves the Reporting in the Media. I mean they sensationalize everything... Things that happen every day on coasters... A train stuck on the lift hill is an everyday occurance, but yet it makes the news because those muck raking bast**** in the media want a story. Now this! How dare they report on people hit and injured with metal shards flying off of a coaster.

(Then again... it could be rider error... IF those people were not riding TTD when this happened, they would not have gotten injured!)

[end sarcasm and satire]

tricktrack said:

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We all know (except Coasterguy) that all the eighties "Intamin" rides are actually Giovanola products

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No... WE don't all know that. However... it is Intamin's name that is on the final product. Gotta be some responsibility there.

Intamin products have been plagued with structural problems (which could have ended worse), riders have fallen out of their rides more than once (that was user error, but it still shouldnt have happened) and now a ride fails and injures riders in the process.

I love intamin rides, but they have got to get their sh** together. No other ride manufacturer has had these problems as frequent as Intamin. Thats where my Intamin bashing comes from.

A couple of you guys asked if any one else would buy a rocket coaster now.

Well 2 are already planned.

Thorpe park is supposed to be getting a 250 foot one with inversions in 2006

Blackpool is also supposed to be getting one in 2006, but this one was going to break the speed and height records. Not sure if Mr Thompsons death (park ceo) as well as recent events will affect the building of this coaster. Thrust X was also being rumoured, so they might go back to s&s.

Cedar Point should just shut down TTDuntil they can install a new launch system because this cable thing is just not working. All of these repairs must be costing the park alot of money.

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The Hulk's launch system was designed by B&M on IoA's pleading with them to create a launch system for the ride. B&M did not want to use what they felt to be unreliable launch methods, which were at the time basically just LSM and LIM technology, and therefore they designed the wheel-launch thing that Hulk got.

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That's just not true. We've all seen the TV special on Discovery. The system was designed by American engineers from Universal, to the extent they were shown experiementing with prototypes.

I would like to re-phrase what I said in regards to the lawsuit scenario and the concept of negligence.

First, let me emphasize that I am glad these injuries were not serious. I also wondered what would have happened if any of these metal shards had gotten into anyone's eyes....very bad, very bad....

Yes, these people could try to sue CF for being injured on the ride as 'rider error' is not possible in this case, but, in order to try to get a 'LARGE' financial settlement, they would have to prove negligence on CP's part. It sounds as if CP acted properly in the entire scenario (after the fact).

Now, if these people were offered transportation to a hospital, and refused it, the chances of receiving a large cash settlement is greatly reduced.

In regards to the negligence, however, it is conceivable to try and argue that because the cable has had so many problems thus far, that Intamin & CP should have been aware of a potential problem...that would open the door for a negligence argument...

Fever

First off, I hope all of the people involved in the accident are ok or recovering well, most of the injuries seemed minor to moderate - the one with the chest wound I wonder about since thats is a lot more serious.

Sounds like it was a bad cable, question is who inspected it prior to shipping for Intamin and prior to install for CP? Was it tested/analyzed at all? Those are the questions that need to be asked and answered before blame is getting tossed around. I'm not an Intamin fan-boy but they can make some good coasters but they are definitely lacking the expertise in certain areas. Their track record with injuries and deaths seems to be much higher than comparable manufacturers. I wonder how much trouble CP and other parks are going to have maintaining the insurance on these rides.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember any type of "real" cable guard between the cable and the trackwork. There may have been an aluminum V shaped guard at certain points but this seems like a simple fix - fabricate a steel V shaped guard that is sandwiched between the top of the track and the cable system with enough clearance to avoid any issues with regular cable flex (that may be the problem, I know its a tight run). And for sections where the public can walk underneath, place a bottom guard as well. That should direct any shrapnel from a cable break down into the ground and avoid the situation if it ever happened again.

Anyways, I'm sure CP will find a solution to the issue given time and $, just like any other park chain.

@ SLFAKE:
I just wanted to show that we should not blame Intamin with the little knowledge we have.
IF the cable was faulty and it was supplied by an external company, than this company is to blame. But even then there are so many unsanswered questions for which we don´t have any answers.
Is the incident a chain of unhappy events? Could they foresee something like this? Could they have used a different material for the cable? If there is one, why wasn´t it used? Is something like this preventable at all without enclosing the cars? And so on and on.

You say, you didn´t know that Intamin rides were mostly built (even conceived) by other companies. Many people believe that the Revolution at SFMM is an Intamin ride (Even the ACE plaque in the station credits it to Intamin and not to Schwarzkopf).
You see, this industry is quite ramified and we tend to be a little too quick to claim to understand how it works.

@gyjdnb:

I heard that the Thorpe Park ride was either pushed back or re-thought. But it has nothing to do with Intamin.
And the ride at Blackpool will definately NOT be from S&S.

To top this: The Heide Park Aqua Trax will also not be build as planned. Tussaud pulled the plug on it for financial reasons.

tricktrack said: You see, this industry is quite ramified and we tend to be a little too quick to claim to understand how it works

Quite agreed... and I suggest heeding a bit of your own advice there.*** This post was edited by SLFAKE 7/14/2004 11:26:30 AM ***

Well, they knew they were having problems with metal shavings last year, though I don't think there were any reports of people being injured by the. Is it a stretch to think the metal shavings could be released into the open air around the ride?

For those of you that don't think this is a big deal (which I just don't comprehend):

Would you think it was a big deal if you were hit in the fact by flying nails that were popping off the structure of Mean Streak or Blue Streak? Would you think it was a big deal if a pump failed on a waterslide causing you to get friction burns?

Hey, I really enjoyed Dragster but I don't want them to keep it open just for the sake of keeping people happy. I want them to close it and get it fixed...no matter how long that takes.

Would it be a big deal if a guest got a friction burn because a pump failed in Soak City? Yes. Would all four Cleveland news stations be live at the park with the story leading the newscast at the top of the hour? No.

So let me get this straight, Gemini. Are you saying it is a big deal, but yet the news stations should not be covering it?

and WahooSkipper said:

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Would you think it was a big deal if you were hit in the fact by flying nails that were popping off the structure of Mean Streak or Blue Streak

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If nails were flying off of the structure of Mean Streak (from what I understand, not a favorite), there would be cries of "TEAR IT DOWN!" (another CF coaster Hercules got the same treatment... simply because it was rough)

However, we are talking about TTD... the much hyped, very expensive favorite of many.

Funny how shards of metal injuring passengers on a favorite is looked at "working out some bugs"... but yet a non favorite that is showing signs of being a little rough should be scheduled for removal.*** This post was edited by SLFAKE 7/14/2004 12:06:32 PM ***

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For those of you that don't think this is a big deal (which I just don't comprehend):

Would you think it was a big deal if you were hit in the fact by flying nails that were popping off the structure of Mean Streak or Blue Streak? Would you think it was a big deal if a pump failed on a waterslide causing you to get friction burns?

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With all the honesty I'd afford my own mother in church on Easter -

No and no.

The above examples along with this TTD incident are freak accidents that were totally unforeseen causing the most minor of injuries at best.

Now if there were maintenance dudes throwing nails at me or turning off the water pumps and giggling while my ass makes that 'ssschreeeeeeech' noise as I go down the slide, then yes it's a big deal.

CP isn't stupid. If they honestly thought little pieces of metal could go flying and give people boo-boos, then TTD wouldn't be running. The second they found out it could happen, they shut the ride down indefinitely.

There's a lot of people involved here - the entire crew of people at CP who think of things like this, the maintenance people, Intamin's people, hell, even all of us enthusiasts! Never once have I seen it mentioned that this could happen. No one thought of it as a possibility - no matter how rare or remote. It's an accident where there was no damage beyond minor scrapes or cuts (A.K.A "boo-boos") - I've seen less severe reaction from many people around here when park fatalities happen.

I'm starting to believe it is exactly like Gemini said: It's a big deal, not because of the incident, but because of the ride involved in the incident.

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So let me get this straight, Gemini. Are you saying it is a big deal, but yet the news stations should not be covering it?

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If I get a friction burn (or hit by debris resulting in very minor scraps), it's going to be a big deal to me. Does that mean that the news media needs to send satellite trucks and present it as a tragedy? Does it mean that I'm going to go on TV and ***** and moan about how the park is unfair and I should get free lifetime passes (sarcasm: I don't think anyone actually asked for that)? Does it mean that I would never ever ride another attraction at Cedar Point? No, no, and no.

The Ohio Department of Agriculture said the incident was minor. They're not even going to investigate.

*** This post was edited by Gemini 7/14/2004 12:35:33 PM ***

Well at least one party has gotten some sense into their heads in this ... but the Dept. of Agriculture? Who made up the law that puts amusement parks under Agriculture? Last time I looked, they didn't grow corn at CP! ;)

Say it with me: Media. Hype. Lawyers.

That's what most of this situation is about, that's what most of it will boil down to. Although, the last category will of course make CP impose ridiculous restrictions on the ride and go after CP for multi-millions over a few pinpricks which I'm sure are already healed today - much to the benefit of their own pocketbooks.
*** This post was edited by Impulse-ive 7/14/2004 12:26:22 PM ***

There is very little they can do to change how the ride operates now. One possibilty could be to make changes to the trains. They could make the trains enclosed protecting riders from shards of metal.

It's the Dept. of Agriculture because much of what they do is inspect fair rides, and fairs are generally speaking an agricultural event. That probably doesn't totally make sense, but it kind of does.