Dragster leaves coaster enthusiasts grounded

Cedar Downs ERT woudl kick ass BTW

I guess I just enjoy the smaller things at CP but I thought Gemini and DT ERT was great. It was sort of a retro 80's night and I liked it.

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UnfrigginbelievablyIncredible

ERT would kick arse on those three, Brent. They're extremely underrated rides.

-Danny

"How many times can you realistically get beaten up on Mean Streak and the Mantis? Magnum and Millennium Force are top rides, but MF has a 2-hour wait.

Cedar Point needs to strive for operational excellence. If the ride is not ready to be open consistently, then they should wait to the bugs are worked out. They should wait to start marketing it." ~NO THRILL DRASTER

I have to agree with NO THRILL DRAGSTER...people can only stand to be beaten up on the Mean Streak and Mantis only 1 time per trip to CP. I mean if you ride MS too long your bound to get major concusions, and you are really guarenteed to have a bad weekend after riding mantis more than once. And with TTD down the lines wer sure to have the 2 hour waits like the year it opened...except for during the week when for some reason the wait was 40 min max.

Cedar Point does strive for operational excellence, but having a coaster broke down for almost a week is horrible. And wouldn't you think that if you were to buy a new coaster you would atleast have some extra parts. And I surely hope that they at least had a warranty for a hydraulic valve. Accidents do happen, but when it happens to something this new and it hardly being opened for a month...does this mean they will have to replace a valve every month???

If so I say scrap it and go back to the drawing boards. Yes it is a great ride, but it is getting rediculous that you want to have the tallest and fastest coaster on the earth, but take time and make something that lastest longer than 25 seconds (add 3 minutes for actually getting to the starting point and waiting in the breaking area!) I waited an 2 hours for 25 seconds...but I will wait til next year or maybe two to ride it again, so the hype will go down and CP will have something new to break down again! LOL! So until then I will enjoy the worlds other best coaster...Millennium Force!

I was there Wednesday and Thursday... no lines past 5 either day and great riding on everything really sad to see that the Dragster was down but the park was just as good without it because the lines for it are rediculous as it is. As a previous person noted the Magnum was almost painful over the bunnyhops but only in the further back seats... seemed like the track waws moving alot thursday first ride I rode was the Magnum because it was close to the entrance and no line whatsoever and honestly it was great until it got to the bunnyhops and it slammed real bad while going down them no good pics for that lol. Millenium is still in my mind the best and will be until they decide to get another coaster with more base to it then a straight hill and drop, after all the best part of a ride is always airtime and falling of which top thrill supplies minimal amounts and should as some have said have a few bunnyhops or something to add to enjoyment or maybe just keep it get it running and move on with a better and bigger ride maybe not so tall which seems to be the theme of things for our rockin' roller coast but a flying coaster or some kind of ride with inversions or lots of airtimes. With height comes hassle and I think that cutting back on height and speed should have an effect that will prove to entertain guests at a better rate if the park will get out of the cycle they seem to be in with the most recent Wicked Twister and Top Thrill Dragster. Both are short rides that supply guests with nothing more than a quick thrill when rides such as the Millenium Force the Raptor and others supply the guests with memories. The fact that the Dragster goes the fastest and climbs the highest doesn't mean anything if the ride is not capable of carrying guests and I believe that from now on Cedar Point will try to break records in more suttle ways with more practical rides.

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There is a fine line between dumb and stupid... get off of my side!!!

How reliable are the new Intamin woodies? I haven't heard anything negative about them besides the gs. CP should take out Demon Drop add a 450 foot tall Gyro Drop somewhere in a tight spot in the park where a coaster would not fit (hopefully without removing any rides) and build a 250 foot tall L-shaped double out and back Intamin hyperwoodie loosely based on Ghostrider with at first drop of at least 72 degrees and 7500 feet of track. I know this is like a repeat post but add this in. I've figure a good spot as hinted would be to used the old Demon Drop station area for the giant woodie's station (not the actual DD station but the same spot maybe using the same queue line as DD) and would cover the end of that overflow parking area and do a double L oval extending to the back beach behind WT up to the beach entrance of the park. So I finally got my question answered on my own "Where can they fit in a HUGE Intamin woodie?" Right on the beach behind WT. :-)Very little would be lost like just a few dozen parking spaces at most and DD being replaced by a much larger space saving version of the ride (Gyro Drop). What can be a better location than on the beach for a huge woodie especially since they were trying to (or rumered to) make the WT area a boardwalk area? I think a HUGE woodie would have less problems than TTD. And Intamin woodies are very low maintenance. :-)

If you don't know anything about marketing, you can keep your criticisms to yourself.

Let's assume Cedar Point didn't start marketing the ride until July. If the ride opened earlier, even as early as the beginning of the season, and there were no commercials for it then people would be critical of that.

I am not an expert in the marketing business but I know a few things. You don't spend each week buying commercials and placing ads on a week-to-week basis. All of those contracts for billboards, commercials, radio ads, etc are drawn up well before the season starts. There are people who actually track how many times a commercial plays throughout the summer.

You know, I never buy the first year of a new make or model car. The reason? I want to make sure all of the bugs have been worked out. That isn't to say that others won't buy it or that it shouldn't be sold. I just like to wait. It is now common (at least amongst the enthusiast community) that Dragster is not yet reliable. If you feel that strongly about it, wait a month or two before going back to the park so that you can feel more confident about it. This isn't all that difficult to comprehend, is it?*** This post was edited by wahoo skipper 6/10/2003 1:20:42 PM ***

"If you feel that strongly about it, wait a month or two before going back to the park so that you can feel more confident about it. This isn't all that difficult to comprehend, is it?"

But that would require patience, a quality that seems to be lacking in many people.*** This post was edited by SLFAKE 6/10/2003 12:37:00 PM ***

Exit passes? Where did you get these?

I can't believe I missed these... they must have been handed out at the PM ERT, because I left at 10:30PM...

That sure would be nice for gay day when I will try to get on TTD again.

If you don't know anything about marketing, you can keep your criticisms to yourself.

No, Wahoo Skipper, it's Cedar Point that doesn't know anything about marketing. How about those great names - The Mantis and Top Thrill Dragster? You sound like a car guy and probably are an engineer for one of the Dead 3 auto companies. They all say that we don't know anything about marketing as well. BUT, at the end of the day their competition beats them on one thing - a QUALITY product. Something that Cedar Point is lacking right now. Hopefully, they will get the bugs worked out on TTD, but what a horrible way to launch a product. Can you imagine if they were a a consumer package goods manufacturer and they put something like this on store shelves!

Just look at those people lined up for the ride right now! That my friend is called opportunity cost! : http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/webcam/camera2.cfm

Two words for you - THE BAT! If you don't know, ask the marketing wizards at Kings Island!

NTD*** This post was edited by No Thrill Dragster 6/10/2003 9:31:06 PM ***

I cannot understand how anyone could actually cheer when they announced Millennium Force would be on instead of TTD.

I planned my whole trip from the UK around Coastermania, which works out at a 4,500 mile flight, $500 airfair, two nights in Breakers Express, car hire, etc. and all for nothing, I've ridden everything at the park numerous times, except Wicked Twister, which was down in 2002 when I visited.

I understand rides break down, but the customer service was worst I have ever experienced. More on this when I get home (I'm still out in the states).

The crowds were hideous so I went off to SFWOA to be treated by a power surge and all coasters down for 2 hours, and pinned in on X-Flight for 20 minutes (not very nice). However, SFWOA gave us 3 meal coupons, exits passes for all the coasters, and $15 each in park cash.

The so called world's best amusement park in the world called security when we made our complaints about the major rides being down 3 out of 4 years I have visited Cedar Point, and gave us absolutely nothing - not even an apology. How on earth an incompetent moron like Michael Weber can be the only person in charge at 9pm in a park that size I have no idea.

You can go on all you like about how great this park is, but I had a better time at William's Grove than this heap of corporate crap.
*** This post was edited by Grant 6/10/2003 10:03:25 PM ***

No apology? It sure sounds from all the trip reports that's exactly what they did at the Q&A. They're doing it now on their Web site as well. Furthermore, they gave everyone exit passes. What more do you expect? A full refund?

Again... see the trip reports. A lot of people managed to have a pretty good time on the other 67 rides. The fact that you flew thousands of miles to ride one ride (which obviously isn't true if you've hit all these other parks), that's your mistake.

No Thrill: Wahoo's comments are dead on. If you did know anything about marketing you'd know that media buys happen far in advance; You don't buy media when the mood strikes you. See the Lighthouse Point ad running on this site along the right side? That discussion began last fall with insertion orders being placed during the winter.

Furthermore, attendance is down for exactly the reason they said... weather. I've been to the park twice all year, and by now I'd normally have a dozen visits in. The weather here has sucked. Even then, since you're such an investment wiz, perhaps you should consider 90% of their revenue is realized in July and August. Then you should check and see how the units have performed in the last year. I'm pretty comfortable with the dividends, and I just assume continue letting Dick Kinzel do what he's doing.

Stuff happens, and if you could for a moment put aside the fact that your feelings are hurt, you'd realize that.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

Exit passes? I didnt get a damn exit pass (was this only for the enthusiast day?). Not even after explicitly asking for one. I was thoroughly pissed off, especially since I paid 30 some bucks to sit on a bench in front of TTD for 6.5 hours. What made it worse was the atitudes of everyone i asked about it, with the exception of the PR lady, whose name I cannot remember, and one of the intimin technicians. God knows the guest service people wouldn't want to make the customer happy, even though they are raking in wads of cash from us. Its not even as though they would lose money by giving me a pass. In fact they would probably gain money since I'd most likely buy some crap in there and they can keep the $3 profit of my soda. Its either get the profits from merchandise and food sold inside the park, or get no buisiness from me at all. For some reason, they chose the latter of the two.

Dont get me wrong... I realize that its not their fault that Dragster was down, nor was it their fault that I sat there all day, like an idiot, hoping it was going to suddenly open (except for the fact thaty I was told by an official that it would be open today). I was just pissed off at the time, because i had been planning the trip for a long time to ride that ride in particular. I just think that they could have done a slightly better job of communicating with us. And truly, I'm just pissed off that I didnt get to ride it, not pissed off at CP or anyone in particular. It was just dissappointing.

//Moracca*** This post was edited by moracca 6/11/2003 1:18:59 AM ***

Why is everyone surprised? It's not like us west-coast based enthusiasts didn't warn ya months ago that, like Xcelerator, Dragster would suffer from excessive downtime.

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Vegas -- June 7-9
ACE Con-Quest -- June 11-22

It's not the media buy that is the long lead time - it's the creative. You can buy ROP space in any newspaper a day or two in advance and can insert within a month's notice. TV as well. (Especially in a media recession!).

Marketing is semantics when this is about operations. Yes, we did have a good time. The guy from the UK has it right - people are relying on the fact that this ride is going to be opened as advertised. How would you like to go to a concert with 5 different bands and the headliner doesn't show! That's what it feels like. I don't think people are whining, I thinkt that they are disappointed and rightfully so. I would not stop to make excuses for the management of this company. It's unacceptable and until we as customers and (some as investors) stop making excuses for such half-ass efforts, it will continue. Yeah, they built the world's largest and tallest coaster. Doesn't the steel look beautiful under the lights? Oh yeah, it DOESN'T work! Quite a way to build a reputation. If you doubt that it won't happen, look at Six Flags reputation.

CP BOY said

"I mean if you ride MS too long your bound to get major concusions, and you are really guarenteed to have a bad weekend after riding mantis more than once".

What's wrong with Mantis? I ride it several times every time that I go to The Point. My first trip this year, just about everything was closed due to high winds, I rode Mantis 8 or 10 times with no trims. (the trims were back on my last trip) Mantis is a great ride. Just look at the line.

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Lets go Drag racing.

I would never, ever, fly overseas to ride one ride. In fact, I won't fly overseas to visit one park. That is the biggest Wally World mistake you could make.

I have learned in many years of customer service that there are some people you won't satisfy no matter how sincere your efforts but you can't give away the farm in order to do so. It looks like that is the case in this situation.

I am sure Cedar Point will survive if some disappointed people never return. I got pissed with Discover Card 10 years ago. So much so, in fact, that I got rid of the card and will never acquire one again. Guess what? They seem to be doing fine without me.

No Thrill Dragster said...

You sound like a car guy and probably are an engineer for one of the Dead 3 auto companies.

No, that would be ME. And it's BIG 3 (more like Big 2), for a reason. Trust me, if all three of us went under, the U.S. economy would be toast.

They all say that we don't know anything about marketing as well.

Show me an example where "we" are telling "you" that "you" don't know anything about marketing (aside from Zarella's stupid 'brand management' crap. He was a moron.). Admittedly, we're not the greatest ourselves, but the auto biz is very different from any other industry.

BUT, at the end of the day their competition beats them on one thing - a QUALITY product.

Yes, our competition beats us in some categories, but if you think that we're not competetive in quality, look here;

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003028

Check out the "2003 Nameplate IQS ranking" table. I see three brands (Cadillac, Buick, and Mercury) that are BETTER than BMW, Toyota, and Honda. Now look at the "2003 Assembly Plant Award Recipients" Our plant in Oshawa is merely ONE POINT behind the vaunted Toyota Camry plant. That one point is nothing. Are we the best? No, Toyota still is. But we're getting closer every year.

Something that Cedar Point is lacking right now.

Last time I was there, they had some quaint little high-quality rides like MF, Maggie, Raptor, Gemini, etc.

Hopefully, they will get the bugs worked out on TTD, but what a horrible way to launch a product. Can you imagine if they were a a consumer package goods manufacturer and they put something like this on store shelves!

Agreed that their product launch hasn't been the smoothest, but it's delusional to compare an extremely complex, multi-million dollar custom machine to freakin' soap or a TV. I can even build a prototype car and test the snot out of it before I sell job one to the customer. Large item manufacturers like roller coaster builders and aircraft makers don't have that luxury.

Last time I looked, every park website or pamphlet says something like this from an MiA brochure, "Due to maintenance and other circumstances, certain rides and attractions (including NEW RIDES) may not be open to the public." Obviously Cedar Point is working their tails off to get TTD operational. They are in business to make money, and every day she's down keeps people (and their money) away. Don't worry, they'll get it fixed.

Later,
EV
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Remember that if you're one in a million, that means that there are 5000 other people on Earth just like you.

Sure, you can buy run-of-schedule media, but you'll pay a huge premium for it. That's why you buy early and in quantity. I know this because I've worked in radio, TV, magazine and Internet media. I've made a career out of being a media whore. I think I'm pretty qualified in that area, thanks.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Sillynonsense.com
"Pray that your country undergoes recovery!" - KMFDM

To be totally honest, I'm really surprised everyone is getting so upset over Dragster being down as much as it is. Like Moosh pointed out (again), Xccelerator had tremedous downtime problems last year. And again, PKD (my home park) had incredible problems with Hypersonic in the last few years since its introduction, and has only this year (so far) gotten it up to the level of downtime that it seems Dragster is experiencing now in its first season. I may be a bit biased, because I was fortunate enough to ride Dragster on opening day, but I did that on purpose. I figured that I might as well get my ride in while the ride is running somewhat consistently and before the inevitable downtime kicks in. So while i realize that it is dissapointing that Dragster was down when some have made a trip specifically to ride it, well, they do warn you in their publications that every ride may not be open all day every day.

And No Thrill, as far as oppurtunity costs go, I'm sure that Cedar Point has plenty of competent economists that are telling them that fact...heck its a pretty obvious point. But equally obvious is that there isn't to darn much they can do about it right now.

As for replacement parts for the ride. Suuure they're going to make sure they have a replacement part for every part that could conceivably fail on every ride they own. Im sure I saw the vast warehouse space that would be required for that somewhere on the island. Especially when they most likely have extensive service agreements with the manufacturers.

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And Trogdor smote the Kerrek, and all was laid to Burnination.
-Strong Bad

I plan on going to this park one way or another. I'm looking forward to taking a friend who has never been to this park.