Does anyone even want to hear why I think FB and Google ruined the Internet?

Friday, September 25, 2020 2:22 AM

There are a lot of people here who might not *really* know each other very well, but we know each other's online personas pretty well. We are quite familiar with that part of the person who is revealed by that window that comes from regular group postings. And while that isn't an intimate familiarity as you might have with a long-time real world friend, it's still the kind of thing that casual relationships are built around. It's like the people you meet...well, say, on a midway perhaps. You get to recognize and get to know people in that context, and in that context you get to know them really well, or at least it feels like it. Of course if you saw that person in another context you might not even recognize him.

But that happens in online communities like this one, and I think the added context of the topical discussion actually makes it easier to breed that level of familiarity. The design of a proper discussion forum also allows for a level of discovery that you won't find on an anti-social network like Facebook. Most of my Facebook "friends" are people I know from other forums, including [Coaster|Point]Buzz and rec.roller-coaster (it's still alive, folks! Go check it out!). Judging from what some of these people post to Facebook I'm not sure I would have met any of them any other way; and Facebook is certainly not designed to encourage community building or even discovery of new friends. It's designed to keep people in their silos, subdivided into the smallest of demographic groups, and kept apart with the illusion of privacy.

(Some of us are rebels. everything I post to Facebook is public.)

Of course that also means that announcement days are tiresome on Facebook, because in order to have a discussion with half the population that I might find on a traditional discussion board, I end up somehow added to four million different tiny little groups on Facebook, and every one of them has to share the same story again and again and again. A lot of discussion has gone there because it's low friction; you're already scrolling through there and it's easy to respond to someone there. But in general it really isn't all that *good*. I'd rather be here.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.


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Friday, September 25, 2020 2:41 AM

It is not that this site is purposely intimidating, it is more that it a place that reputation is earned. A first-time poster has an uphill climb to sway the crowd. I don't think that is a bad thing. But is it worth the time to them to build that reputation? To many it isn't. You can go on to get more sway with much less effort in other places.

One of the things that bothers me is that despite my intentions of attempting to be constructive when I do post, the post I have gotten the most upvote for here (I guess it was PBuzz, but details...) from was me smacking down a troll. The guy deserved it, and I don't think I would do it any differently given the chance again. But it bothers me a touch.

I do think we need to encourage more people to join the conversation. When a new user comes along like a puppy and pisses on the 'Buzz rug a bit by calling Gemini a hybrid or other faux pas, I think as a group we could resist the urge to pile on. Let whoever gets there first administer the correction, and move on. If we can get more people involved the community will last longer. Otherwise as a group we will resemble the current crisis in the building trades where people are aging out and need replacing.

Last edited by PDXPointer, Friday, September 25, 2020 2:45 AM
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Friday, September 25, 2020 8:03 AM

Wait Gemini isn't a hybrid?

(I have definitely felt that intimidation factor here. I usually still feel like an outsider, although posting more in the age of Covid I feel less that way now. But this is the best/only place for thoughtful discussion I regularly visit on the Internet.)

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Friday, September 25, 2020 8:25 AM
sirloindude's avatar

I still feel the intimidation factor here, but it’s not a bad thing. It’s intimidating because the community here commands a higher level of conversation and debate. I’ve got a long way to go, but I’d like to think that I approach situations and form reactions more logically at least in part because of this site. If the rest of the internet, especially social media, discussed things the way we do here, we’d be a lot further along as a society. I know that there are often times I want to respond to a thread and have to stop myself because I know my argument is on shaky ground, and there are times when I should but don’t and then get taken to task appropriately, but my goodness, it’s genuinely refreshing compared to the wanton nonsense everywhere else.

I do wish there were more active users sometimes, but I also think that I’d rather a lower level of visible activity if it keeps this place the absolute best place on the internet to have a discussion.


13 Boomerang, 9 SLC, and 8 B-TR clones

www.grapeadventuresphotography.com

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Friday, September 25, 2020 10:32 AM

ApolloAndy said:

I genuinely hope I'm not a part of the cause of it. Is it an in/out crowd kind of thing with all the in jokes? Was it the whole Minivan of Jusice nonsense which I am embarassed to admit I thought was cool at the time?

I think you're onto something here, but honestly it was so long ago that I've forgotten far more about it than I actually remember. There was a stretch of time here where I didn't post very often because it seemed like every single thread went down the same inside line of humor. An interesting aside to that: I still regularly post on 2 active forums these days. This one and another that's more local to me and has nothing to do with the subject matter here. That other board went through a similar inside humor clique phase at almost the same time. It really started with one person that had diarrhea of the keyboard and posted in every. single. thread and his minions followed up with affirming posts that usually dragged the thread completely off topic (I don't remember that happening here on a regular basis). Eventually that person disappeared, Myspace and Facebook became a thing, and the forum cooled off into a smaller core group of regular posters that engaged in interesting discussion.

If there's anything to the quality of discussion intimidation factor, that's a good thing. I continue to return here daily, even if I don't post daily, because discussions are amongst the highest quality that I've ever seen on a forum. Just look at the discussions over the last six month. This is the only place I've seen reasonable, logical, mostly middle-of-the-road discussion that rarely devolves into the "IT'S A HOAXX!#!!" nonsense.

As for social media, I would pay to see a chronological feed of what people post. I've drastically cleaned up my feed so that I stop seeing garbage like the guy I grew up with that shares the memories of every single one of his posts every day or the constant pro-Trump and conspiracy non-sense. I would bail on Facebook in a heartbeat if not for the way it has allowed me to stay connected with family and close, lifelong friends.


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Friday, September 25, 2020 3:00 PM

I can say, that for myself, I was a bit intimidated to post here in the beginning. I don't post a whole lot now. I did read several times before I began to post, to lurk the boards for a while before deciding to jump into the conversation at hand. I do agree that posting here requires me to be a bit more thoughtful about what I am going to say. It's hardly a bad thing and forced me to try to be a bit more mature than what I was used to on other message boards. I have been a long time member of KICentral. I rarely post there, although I have been a bit more active as of recently.

I would also like to add that I have gone off topic and have seen some others do the same and talk about important issues to everyone. What I did and do enjoy about that is that I never felt like anyone was trying to personally attack me. I was just being challenged to think about what I consider to believe what is true. It was done respectfully, which is something severely lacking in this day and age.

I had a Twitter account for the 1st time in January. About a month ago, I just deactivated my account. I literally found that Twitter is the sewer of Facebook. It infuriated me that your posts or replies are very limited in the amount of characters one is permitted to use. I tried to stick it out with Twitter, but as I was growing tired of the nature of Facebook, it seemed Twitter was far worse.

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Friday, September 25, 2020 6:07 PM

Yeah, well, I'm gong to go build my own internet ... with blackjack and hookers.
In fact, forget the internet.

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Friday, September 25, 2020 10:32 PM
Jeff's avatar

Several of you have purchased memberships since I posted this, and for that, thank you. I've got hosting covered now for the next six weeks regardless of ad revenue.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Monday, September 28, 2020 2:25 PM

0g said:

Yeah, well, I'm gong to go build my own internet ... with blackjack and hookers.
In fact, forget the internet.

Count me in, how much does the ticket cost?

On a more serious note, I think that the whole "online persona" thing is ... pretty good, as some people feel better by talking online through the image they've built of themselves than when talking in real life with other people who see them, know what others tell of them...

And on the topic of "ruining the Internet", there's one big gripe I have with Facebook: its cult of instantaneity. Everything has to be answered now. And tomorrow, it'll be forgotten and asked again. Meanwhile, on a forum, a question that's been asked 5 years ago will be available for everyone to see and will not have to be answered every 12 hours in a Facebook group that's constantly filled with new (sometimes inane) content.

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Monday, September 28, 2020 4:47 PM

I like that last part. For every zombie thread from the early 2000s that has been brought back by a bot, there's been one that has legit been brought back and it's a lot of fun to go back and read. One thing I always notice here is that the number of participants seems to be inversely proportional to the quality of the conversation. If you read a thread from the early 2000s you'll see plenty of usernames that may have been here for a year or so when they were going through an enthusiast phase (as well as some of us that were younger and may or may not have had a different username). It's fun to see the maturity of the conversations as people jumped from teenagers to their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc.

If you go on some of the Walt Disney World forums they are still getting 100+ new posts a day on a few pages worth of active threads. But 95% of it is garbage. Here (especially on weekends) you'll sometimes go a day or two without any activity on the forums. But when there is, it's almost guaranteed to be worth reading.

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Monday, September 28, 2020 5:01 PM
Jeff's avatar

If you think about it, the Internet incentivizes engagement for everyone involved, but it ironically reduces the quality of all of it. It's true for virtually everything. Yes, you can make a documentary and put it online, and "compete" with studios, but every kid with a webcam can do the same. I think part of the problem with the Internet in general is that curation has become difficult. Popularity has nothing to do with quality.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Friday, October 2, 2020 1:14 AM

Facebook ruins everything. I have to admit though that there are a couple content creators on Youtube that I like.

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Friday, October 2, 2020 9:38 AM
Jeff's avatar

Me too, but only a few.

A few of you bought memberships, thank you. It didn't take much to cover costs this month.

Regarding social networks... does anyone really value push notifications, or are you generally satisfied to get notifications when you want, viewing the app?


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Friday, October 2, 2020 10:56 AM

I haven't had notifications turned on for anything other than texts in I don't know how long

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Friday, October 2, 2020 4:15 PM

I've never turned on notifications for facebook other than messenger on my phone I don't need the thing binging all day while I'm doing things away from facebook. If my brother decides to "like" every picture from my last vacation trip individually just to be a pest I don't need to be notified about that one bing at a time while I'm at work. Messenger I keep on because some people use it for keeping in touch with me instead of texting. I have pay as you go for texting myself so I use it that way too depending on who I need to contact.

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Saturday, October 3, 2020 9:31 PM
OhioStater's avatar

I'm with Brett. I remember when I first had the FB app on my Pixel and just being endlessly annoyed. To be honest, I also deleted the FB app altogether, and only go to it through the browser on my phone.

As far as general notifications go, I don't even have any on my laptop. I just don't like them.


Promoter of fog.

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Sunday, October 4, 2020 3:14 PM

I agree that notifications should be tightly controlled. If an app (desktop or mobile) notifies me with an "engagement" notification ("Come see our Blog!", "Rate us!", "New Features!" etc), it is likely I will disable all of it's access to notifications after only one or two times. IMHO, notifications should be limited to new results of work ("Package arrived.", "New Email"), Customer Service (Billing, New Terms and Conditions, Data Breach Warnings), and extreme need communications (CEO apologies, etc). Otherwise, I will deal with you when I log in.

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Thursday, October 8, 2020 9:21 AM
Jeff's avatar

I have a Pulte house. I sit on the board of the HOA and we're currently suing Pulte.


Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog - Music: The Modern Gen-X - Video

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Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:05 AM

Tilt-A-Whirl said:

I was TERRIFIED of Jeff (still am 😬)

I now work for Pulte Homes in Orlando

Jeff said:

...we're currently suing Pulte.

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Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:47 AM

A quick googlin' of Pulte homes alone would make me avoid at all costs. This was just the initial impression, let alone if you dig around further.

Would those reviews not scare one away from building with them? I know you find more complaints/issues online with this type of stuff, than good, but still a bit scary. I was able to find other home builders with great reviews/feedback, so they do exist. But perhaps Florida doesn't have many options?

If I was to build a home and I google'd that above, it would be an easy 'nope!" from me!

Last edited by SteveWoA, Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:56 AM
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