Disneyland resume annual pass sales

History is not any guide in this case. In November when passes went on sale, by this time on day 2 everything was totally sold out. Right now there is no digital queue and all 3 of the available passes are still available. They may have finally reached some equilibrium of price and availability.

The question is when WDW reopens sales to out of state guests. Surprised this hasn’t happened yet. I got to think it’s hurting DVC sales.

A lot of DVC folks tend to be entitled douches, but given that many of the properties are at WDW, I can't understand why they ever excluded them in the first place.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t understand DVC either (it makes going during down times harder as that’s when everyone goes, the opportunity cost to that down payment is ridiculous and the savings in the years after don’t materialize enough at least for me as a single person) but clearly we’re in the minority because prior to the pandemic it sold like gangbusters. I’ve heard it’s been doing not nearly as well since, and I have to think that (besides the economy) not having access to APs is the biggest driver of this.

DVC is doing just fine. Sales have dropped some compared to The Before Times. But the last time I compared their numbers to some of the other major players, the drop was comparable. In other words: the decrease had little to do with DVC in particular, and much more to do with macro issues. It's just another timeshare.

From DVC News:

2022 was not a record-setting year for DVC point sales but the data shows that numbers are continuing to rebound from the affects of the global pandemic. 2,019,796 points were sold in 2022, a 43.2% improvement over 2021. It is also the first time since 2019 and the fourth time in the last 10 years that yearly sales surpassed the two-million point mark.

I suspect one of the reasons why the lack of APs hasn't been a big deterrent: the "entry price" of DVC (150 point minimum purchase) gets you a bit less than a week in a studio for the resorts currently on sale, and much less if you want a bigger unit. If most new buyers are at or near the entry price, that's not enough to come back repeatedly year after year, so the AP doesn't make or break the sale.

DVC is a terrible deal. The math is just awful, and I don't understand why anyone buys it. Even if the property cost was reasonable, the maintenance is unreasonable. But I'm not convinced that the AP situation doesn't have at least some impact. Anecdotal, but one friend is practically ready to sell, and he bought in the aftermarket.

These days, DVC does not make sense to me like it once did. I would like to be able to visit more than once and/or stay in a one bedroom with a kitchen - and to do that requires an astronomical amount of points - if I’m driving a car in anyway so I can stop for groceries - I’ll just stay at an off-site villa at that point.

I didn’t used to feel this way, but that 150 point minimum plus yearly dues is making it not make sense.

The math can make sense, but only if you are comparing a studio exclusively to a hotel room in the same resort category--and in some cases, the same resort--at prevailing rental rates. It makes marginally more sense bought resale. But the payoff horizon, even resale, is ~10 years. Direct is more like 15-17. You have to be committed.

And that's why I never bought in. I don't need to stay in one of the DVC/Deluxe resorts to have a good time. I'm happy enough in Bonnet Creek, which is closer to the parks than some of the DVC resorts. I'll stay in DVC 1BR or 2BR units on exchange (which works out to be about $125-$175/night for me, depending on how I do it) but I'm not enough of a Disneyphile to go all in.

I'm sure there are people who aren't buying/are selling because of the AP thing, but the overall numbers don't suggest it's a problem that can't be overcome on the sales floor.

I’m not sure if raw numbers tell the whole story, they are selling DVC at the most coveted resorts (Poly and GF) but they haven’t filled it, Rivera is still open too I believe.

Poly is sold out, which is why they are building another tower. The "original" Grand was also sold out until they did a quick-and-dirty converstion of one of the hotel buildings. If memory serves, Riviera is about halfway there.

I did mean the new Poly and GF offerings.

Gotcha. Poly 2.0 is not for sale yet (and I think is just getting footings now?)