Disneyland Resort delays theme park reopening indefinitely

I'm currently sitting in a small local diner I frequent for breakfast 2-3 times a week on the way to work and/or weekends. There are 5 other customers here, spread out throughout the restaurant. No one is closer than 15-20 feet from me at the moment. All of the booths now have the plexiglass barriers extending far past where the tallest head would end. All of the tables are spread out. Servers are masked. Cashier area is all plexiglassed up. There's a bottle of sanitizer on every table.

You can't tell me my coffee and eggs on the way to work this morning are more dangerous to COVID-19 spread than had I attended the Downtown Orlando protests last month with tens of thousands of others.

The "but the protests" posts are exhausting. Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) contact tracers have traced the majority of new cases to people traveling out of state and to party bars in party neighborhoods. Clubs and dive bars if you will. These places have flaunted the state's guidelines, been over capacity, and have not enforced any social distancing or mask wearing. They said a small percentages of the new cases did attend protests but none of them even attended the same one. The same bars showed up again and again.

Your diner sounds pretty safe BrettV.

BrettV, that’s been the point I’ve been trying to make. Some things are worth the risk and some things aren’t, but what I’ve been so annoyed with are what appear to be attempts to come up with scientific explanations that somehow make the protests safer than other activities. The only explanation so far that really works is the frequent use of masks by protestors, and that definitely holds water based on the outbreaks stemming from people without masks going to crowded bars and parties and such. However, if that’s the explanation we’re all to accept, it effectively destroys arguments in favor of social distancing in outdoor environments. Amusement parks, outdoor sports, etc. should all be able to go to full capacity with mask requirements based on the scientific explanations we’ve been given.

sirloindude said:
Amusement parks, outdoor sports, etc. should all be able to go to full capacity with mask requirements based on the scientific explanations we’ve been given.

I think amusement parks are being overly cautious because they don't want to be responsible for a large outbreak. It would be devastating PR.

Oh, I’m sure that’s the reason, and it makes perfect sense. My point, though, is that if these protests are somehow not at all responsible, parks running at full capacity wouldn’t be, either.

Parks involve common touch points for a number of surfaces. And large gatherings make contact tracing significantly more challenging.

I think I posted the story about the county in Washington that did a reasonable amount of contact tracing and traced few if any cases to protesting. Also, I guess it keeps coming up because people want to make the moral equivalence argument between protesting and Starbucks. 🤷‍♂️

I think there diner that Brett is going to is not likely high risk. The countless videos of bars where people aren't adhering to protocol likely are high risk. That doesn't seem complicated to me.

I'm interested in the super-spreader phenomenon that has only just begun to be studied. Why does such a small percentage of infected people account for the majority of the spread? If it is largely circumstance, that's a good thing because we can avoid the situations if we can define them. It's still concerning that the random individual Publix cashier gets sick, though we can't necessarily attribute that to work.

For all of my fellow Central Florida people - indulge me as I plug my local breakfast place. They're family owned, are worried about the future, and have gone above and beyond to be safe with the reopening. It's your standard diner fare - basic food done pretty darn well with bad coffee that you'll happily drink anyway at a great price, and always comfortably filled with regulars. If you're ever out in the Winter Park area, they're worth the trip.

https://www.scottjosephorlando.com/reviews/51-american/4580-fairbanks-restaurant

Just being at an amusement park seems low risk, but there are lots of points in a typical day at an amusement park that seem higher risk. Waiting in line for the Mummy or Pirates of the Caribbean seems like a terrible idea. Waiting in line for Maverick or a cheeseburger - not as bad, but maybe not great. Restrooms, over and over? Eh, not sure.

(I also tend to think the chlorine-soaked environment of a waterpark is about as safe as anything I can imagine - except for, again, changing rooms, bathrooms, etc. It's kind of odd to me that those aren't opening as quickly, but that may be logistics as much as safety at this point.)

For me, it just feels a little unpredictable, and I wouldn't enjoy it. For you, it might be different. For the government, I'd understand a wait-and-see approach (although I also understand the economic effect of keeping parks closed in central Florida, or Sandusky, is more severe than other places).

Depending on what else you're having, eating eggs two or three times a week might be a bigger concern for your own health ...

Jeff said:

I think I posted the story about the county in Washington that did a reasonable amount of contact tracing and traced few if any cases to protesting. Also, I guess it keeps coming up because people want to make the moral equivalence argument between protesting and Starbucks. 🤷‍♂️

I think there diner that Brett is going to is not likely high risk. The countless videos of bars where people aren't adhering to protocol likely are high risk. That doesn't seem complicated to me.

I'm interested in the super-spreader phenomenon that has only just begun to be studied. Why does such a small percentage of infected people account for the majority of the spread? If it is largely circumstance, that's a good thing because we can avoid the situations if we can define them. It's still concerning that the random individual Publix cashier gets sick, though we can't necessarily attribute that to work.

I’ve explained that I’m not suggesting a moral equivalence, but rather pointing out the conclusions one can draw from the science being presented. If I’ve been a jerk, sarcastic, or what have you in the way I’ve made my arguments, though, I apologize. I respect your points and your arguments, and I respect the scientific community and their handling of this. I’m just saying that some arguments from the scientific community seem oddly convenient to suit certain causes, and what I’m afraid will happen is that the anti-science crowd will use those questionable scientific conclusions to justify their perspective. That can lead to a host of other significant problems. I want civil rights to win here. I really do. I’m just pointing out that maybe the approaches taken, however necessary people may deem them, could very quickly turn counterproductive, and then nobody wins.

Regarding your contact-tracing article, though, I thought it interesting that NPR decided to draw the conclusion they did in their headline because of one town. See what I mean about journalistic integrity issues? You can’t draw a nation-wide conclusion on something like this from one town. Also, and please correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t contact-tracing essentially you rattling off the names of the people with whom you’ve been in contact? If so, I could see the protests spreading it and yet not getting blamed because odds are you don’t know the names of all the people around you. If contact-tracing is more elaborate than that, though, please correct me.

"Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus"

That draws a conclusion? The second sentence of the article says it's about an area of Washington State. I think you need to give NPR a little more credit than that.

Contact tracing isn't just getting someone's contact list, it's a much larger effort that includes tracing movement and trying to determine who was in a particular place at a particular time.

Contract tracing sounds like it varies across the country. I know people who have tested positive and no one ever asked them anything about where they had been, people they were with, etc. Other people who found out they had it because they got a call from their local health department saying they had been in contact with someone who tested positive.

And from what I understand parts of our public health system are still using fax machines and paper records (often produced with pen and paper) to share information.

In some other countries, contract tracing is much more automated and higher tech. Apps track movements and can share if someone tests positive. You have to be in clear status to board public transit. All done through phones. I didn't think US would be ready for that 3 months ago but the answer may be different now (at least more people would support that now).

Jeff, thank you for the clarification on contact tracing. That’s what I was curious to know. I had to quarantine for a couple of weeks due to a coworker testing positive, and I was just curious if it was simple I-was-with-these-people or if there was more to it than that.

Regarding the article, yes, I’m aware that the body of the article mentioned that it was one city in Washington. However, the title is a blanket statement written in a manner that makes it appear to be a universal truth that protests aren’t spreading it. They should’ve added the city name in the title. In not doing so, they’re taking one case as blanket truth, or at least they’re giving that appearance. Stunts like that are why people have trust issues with the media, and it’s why #fakenews gets the traction it does. A couple additional words in the title would have made all the difference, so I think it’s plenty fair for me to call it journalistic laziness, at best.

Contract tracing has some challenges:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/01/nyregion/rockland-coronavirus-party.html

County health officials turning to subpoenas to get people to talk. But that all takes time. Article also indicates about 2 in 5 people infected in NYC area are sharing info about contacts with tracers.

So back to freedom over public health then?

Kennywood postpones opening

BrettV said:

Maybe I'm jaded because of the three "do absolutely nothing until there is a vaccine" individuals that I do know that all went to protest multiple times....

Yeah, me too. A coworker who who scolded me on facebook for my frustration with stay at home orders being extended again because I wanted badly to visit some friends and family and was frustrated that 2 weeks turned into a month and then another month and another month, someone who had told me that they felt it was too risky to visit anyone outside of their household until there was a vaccine, then went and posted all about their experience at the protests on facebook.

I have a Kennywood reservation for July 9th.

You mean you had a reservation for July 9th........

Technically the limits on gatherings over 25 expires... checks notes... the day after my reservation.