Disney may lose GM sponsorship for Test Track

^ - that's as bad as the soccer mom's in 4x4 SUV's who tip-toe over speed bumps and around mud hole's.

My Jeep (damn I wish I still had it) was attracted to mud holes. The path may go past the hole and my steering wheel would suddenly lurch towards the hole so that it was hit with no less than 2 wheels.

There is nothing more disgraceful than to have 4 wheel drive and not use it as God intended.

My Cherokee was the same way. Up in the Keweenaw, I was out playing in the mud, and just before plowing through one of many "puddles" in the area, I paused, sensing something wasn't quite right about that particular one. Of course, my friends in the Jeep with me simply egged me on, mocking my apprehension. So, I gunned it.

My Cherokee hit that mud hole and the front 2/3 of it sank like a damn stone, up to just beyond the headlights, with water pouring into the cabin up to the seat bottoms.

After unsuccessfully trying to get out (even a straight-six in 4-Lo has it's limits, apparently), we walked a few miles to the nearest bar to call for a tow. While watching the Jeep slowly get winched out, it dawned on me what had given me pause earlier - while there were many tire tracks leading into that mud hole, there were none leading out. :)

Of course, even after having it's engine submerged in water for a couple of hours, the Jeep started right up as if nothing had happened.

All you should have learned from that was that you needed a bigger lift to support bigger tires.

That, and always be wary of buying a used vehicle that was once a lease. :)

I agree that there could be a debranding done in a week (actually overnight...). I also think they could find an automaker that would be BEGGING for that publicity and marketing. Good luck to GM and I hope Disney gets this resolved.

To each his own. I am not saying you should not have your civic. May I ask what year Taurus you had? Just curious.I need to ask, because even some of the first styles they made are still on the road because they are reliable.

I personally do not think 27 miles to the gallon is gas guzzling as you guys seem to call it. Gas guzzling should be 10 mpg. 20 mpg is not good, but not guzzling. Some just like to run with a term thrown out by someone on tv or radio and attach it to what ever isn't best in their eyes. What number in your opinion constitutes guzzling? I just filled my Taurus this morning and on 316 miles put in 11.1 gallons. That's OVER 28 mpg. I will take that everyday and not complain. I have not and will not complain about my mpg. I personally like the space, like knowing I am in a highly rated vehicle for my family's safety, and can haul whatever I want home. Aside from a huge boat. But it will haul a 4x8 trailer loaded with stuff with no problem.

And maybe some of us don't care about safety or hualing. Jeff, you act like I am running down foriegn cars. I simply said I like what I have. If you don't like them that's fine. Your saftey is your concern. You don't need to say it's an argument. It wasn't. What in your opinion is gas guzzling? This morning I filled up at 28 plus mpg. Like I said before, drive what you want this is not an attack on foreign cars. I mainly chimed in because people, (you were one of them) said the Taurus was no longer made. I was correcting an error and saying I like my car.

In modern passenger cars, size rarely relates directly to safety.

A 2005 Ford Taurus (112.9" wheelbase) has 4/5 front and 3/3 side crash ratings.

By comparison, a 2005 Toyota Corolla (102.4" wheelbase) has 5/5 front and 4/4 side crash ratings.

I didn't say anything about what my concerns are or anything else you think I implied. I was just stating my amusement that people bring up cases that amount to fringe use cases to justify buying giant cars.

And my Corolla in a crash, 40%+ for fuel efficiency, FTW. :) And adequate space for hauling groceries.

Being in the environmental household that I am (shakes fist in air towards my wife while typing), we are on the similar page as Jeff.

All 3 of our Cars are Hondas.. with my:
Del Sol giving me 35+ MPG and 16 years old
Civic being 8 years old and giving 35+ MPG
Accord being 4 years old giving 30+ MPG.

You just cant complain about that.. Even when gas rocketed up I never exceeded paying over 50 every 2 weeks and going on total average over 350+ miles on a tank.

SUVs are nice, but personally I view it as a "status symbol" more than a need as most the time in VA theres 1 person in the vehicle. Sides my wife would go into cardiac arrest if I introduce something non envirnmental into our garage. I barely get away with the power draw in my server room.

That's exactly what it is, a status issue (like big McMansions bought with mortgages people can't afford). When I graduated from college, with gas under a buck, my average fueling stop didn't surround me in huge SUV's. They didn't exist at the time, save for maybe Jeep Cherokees. People drove cars. We seemed to be getting along just fine, even with that Internet thing starting to catch on a few years later.

Gotta play devil's advocate.

So far all I see are implications that big vehicle owners are guilty (in making excuses for vehicle choice like need and safety) or shallow (status symbol).

Maybe people buy and drive them because they want to? Because they like them? Without any excess baggage.

Just a thought.

And what is our stance on big-vehicle Hybrids? What's up with those f'n people!? ;)

Im a person who owns a big car (its a minivan) and will always own a big car. Why? Because Im a big and tall guy and no matter what normal car I get into, I feel like a contortionist getting into, and especially out of a normal car. I dont want to experience that everyday, especially when Im older and will likely throw my back out. It doesnt matter if the car actually has good leg room once Im in it (some cars most certainly do) the problem is getting in and out of it, its just too low to the ground for me. Im definatly a guy that, when I get the money, will go out and purchase a hybrid SUV because that way I can cut back my gas cost to that of a normal gas only car but thats as far as I go. I need my cars at my level, Ill never own something smaller then a Jeep.

Lord Gonchar said:

And what is our stance on big-vehicle Hybrids? What's up with those f'n people!? ;)

Isn't it obvious? They're responsible people with small penises. Geez. :)

Big vehicle hybrids are a joke. The gains in fuel efficiency are relatively insignificant and still not anywhere above 30. This includes the Toyota Highlander hybrid.

I'm sure some people like to drive big vehicles just because they do (and seriously, why does this discussion bring out every 6'4" person with cries of "I gotta have it" when they're not representative of the massive majority of people out there?). But here's the thing: None of us live in a vacuum where our actions don't affect other people. I'm completely annoyed at this whole flag-waving freedom to do whatever because I can nonsense.

Why do we make distinctions that it's not OK to kick puppies, we should hold the door open for people entering a building and not throw crap in our neighbor's yard, yet our culture is completely OK with destructive behavior toward the environment or our national well-being? Is it because the effects aren't obvious and immediate? Because we're all "just one person?"

Because, yes, driving inefficient vehicles contributes to poor energy policy, environmental damage and arguably puts our national security at risk. There are consequences for this disregard. I mean, does any one remember gas shortages?

It could be argued that the industrialization and rise of the United States after the depression could be tied to the auto industry, but the great irony is that it can largely be blamed for our issues now. Two cars in every garage, many costing more than people can afford, drove people to the suburbs into houses they couldn't afford, and put all of these people on the road doing long commutes in a nation that has a joke of a public transportation system.

Did you know that the middle class family, adjusted for inflation, made $29,000 a year in 1950? Now it's $75,000 in same dollars. What's the difference? Bigger and more expensive cars and houses. The success of the American Dream itself is causing its collapse. That irony floors me.

The upside of all of this is that people getting laid-off and losing homes are re-evaluating what it really takes to live a comfortable life within their means. People aren't gonna be rolling in their $30k SUV's anymore, and certainly auto sales in that segment are bearing that out.

I guess I'm rambling, but my bigger point is that everyone shares the responsibility of having a sustainable and stable way of life, and the excess of big autos has contributed to the imbalance we're in now. Just as no one should tell you what's right and wrong in terms of every day social interaction, no one should have to tell you what the long-term economic, environmental or cultural impact of your actions are. If you learn about what that impact is, you should know what the right things to do are as a moral contributor to society.

So cue the "liberals wanna tell us what to do nonsense," because I know it's coming. When you're done, I'll remind you that you're not just accountable to yourself, you're accountable to the world you inhabit as well.

^Well the fact is Im 6'3" and thats why I pipe up here. Also, the American public, in addition to getting bigger is also slowing getting taller, especially here in the midwest. Im not alone, you can thank the over abundance of food for that one.

And its not that I dont care about the environment, thats just one area where I wont compromise. Instead I always plan before I drive so that I dont go back and forth, walk when I can, use my cruise control whenever possible, keep my thermostat low, and am fanatical about turning lights. I just hate how some people attack anyone who isnt a farmer for owning a big car, some of us are not like the idiots who just dont give a crap, some of us have it for other reasons. My big car is also darn helpful whenever I go on a trip, move, or have to buy a bulky item. It fits anything, and is also helpful when I go out with my friends because when we go in my car we only need to take one instead of two.

I can't argue with your logic, Jeff.

I'm just not sure I buy what the level of damage is or what something as minimal in the big picture as being mad at SUVs is going to do.

I think I read somewhere that if every SUV and truck owner switched to a Prius tommorow the US would only reduce gasoline consumption by 7%. Don't remember where though. I suppose that's a first step and I can't argue that, but it sure feels underwhelming.

And that doesn't factor in the environmental impact of disposing of those SUVs and trucks, nor the greater impact in manufacturing hybrids over non-hybrid vehicles.

I think it'd be more fun to get mad at people who commute. If I get 10 miles to the gallon but drive only ten miles a week, that's better than driving 20 miles each way to work in a 50mpg vehicle.

I think the point is there's possibly countless sliders to adjust in the big equation. Do we have to adjust them all? Is adjust some good enough? Who gets to decide what to adjust?

And if the big-vehicle hybrids are a joke too (even though it's at least a step forward) for doing less than 30 (and who picked that number?) then my campaign is going to be all about anyone doing anything less than the best being a joke, so until everyone starts walking everywhere...I don't wanna hear it. My feet get infinity mpg...and so did horses.

Why am I reminded of Smug Alert? ;)

I agree with Lord here. I asked for a number that was considered not a guzzler and no response. What is the number.

I could care less about what other people think of me. They can think Taurus gas hog if they want. They can think Taurus American made good buy if they want. They can think Taurus UGLY PIECE OF CRAP! I don't care it does what I need when I need it. I care more that they think of me as a considerate driver that pays attention. You know when traffic is at a red light and someone wants to pull out of a place of business. What is one more car at a red light going to hold me up. Better than refusing to look at the person trying to get out cause one car length at a red light means the world.

Am I better off in a 17 mpg vehicle carrying 8 people. Or two 35 mpg carrying 4 each. Don't forget the oil to run the extra vehicle. the tires on the extra vehicle. or all the other plastic parts that smog up the air while being made. Oil is used to make everything. Even food. Plastics that it comes in. The ink that the label is printed on. You can't buy a bannana that didn't have oil involved. So gasoline is not our only problem in consuming oil as a country.

Almost forgot Lord Gonchar, Horses are bad too because they produce Methane gas. and that's not good for the environment either.

Gonch. Not sure where you live, but due to urban sprawl, cost of housing vs location, etc, very few people live less than 10 miles a week from work, especially in coastal citys. So let me add more variables to your equation..

Should I get mad at people who drive 30+ miles a week in an SUV (1 person typically going to work) or 1 person driving a vehicle that gets 25+? Personally I commute to DC (3hrs) for my job 3 times a month max and you wouldn't catch me dead in a <17mpg vehicle.. it makes no sense, financially or logically. I also pick up slugs thus helping out the gas savings even more. Also my Accord is quite comfortable for long drives. Not sure where the illusion it has to be massive to be comfortable came from.. Your not walking around the isles of your vehicle while you drive.

I also think its becoming apparent to the US that SUVs are not practical in certain if not many scenerios, otherwise sales of SUVs would be much higher or at least equal than fuel efficient cars.. No supply and demand in that realm.

Due to my trip to work via interstate, I found it most amusing when gas pegged $4+ dollars, I saw less and less SUVs, so I thought to myself if they are necessary why am I seeing less of them? I certainly didnt change vehicles during that. So for the general populus, I dont buy the need theory. Sure if you have 18 kids, a van/suv would be useful and those people probably held on during high gas prices, but there were a lot of others "stepping down" as well.

Now to the safer excuse.. There are people who justify SUVs for that "reason", so are they saying before SUVs were prominent, we were less safe when we all were on the same relative scale? I think the safety illusion comes from the "who is bigger" theory more than anything else.. Honestly my saftey has been decreased due to Joe SUV who wants to talk on phone and drift into my lane. So I suppose the answer is my vehicle should be larger than theirs? Check most insurance policies.. I also guarentee rates are higher for SUV owners due to the extensive damage they can cause. So I guess safer is defined on what side of the fence you sit on.

Yes... Ultimately we can drive, do or say whatever we want, but I agree with Jeff that every action can affect others in numerous ways.

Ironic yet tragic.. as im typing this I was watching the news.. SUV hit a smaller vehicle, driver died in smaller vehicle. Totally sucks.

I guess I would rather have been in the SUV in that scenario. Prayers go out to family of smaller vehicle.

Like I mentioned before, you don't know who else is behind the wheel of the other car.

One Scenario to the more smaller cars on road when gas went high. Extra car for work puposes. Drive other when going out and want the other ride.

Just remember, unless you are driving a smart car there is a car on the road that gets better miles then yours. And as for your ridemcoaster, why in the world are you not using the fabulous DC public transportation? When I lived in the area, my car went out exactly once a week (to get groceries) unless I was on my way to BGE or Hershey. Im betting the light rail goes out to your area. Gosh, you are such a gas hog!

*This is why you cant set arbitrary numbers between "evil" and "good" because invariably there will be someone with a higher standard then you that lumps you into the "evil" category. You really need to adjust for living situation, where you live, what else you do, etc. before you determine wither or not a person's "Carbon footprint" is too big.