Disney likely to keep reservations in place for foreseeable future

I can't imagine going to a park for an entire day and having a goal of getting only 5.2 rides in.

I haven't been to Disney in 5 years or so, but Everest, Dinosaur, Safari, and the Pandora crap. There aren't that many more rides, are there? Rapids and the dino spin thing. I can't think of anything else.

5.2 seems reasonable for number of rides at AK with all of the animal stuff and shows. Unless they're including those things in the 5.2, in which case that does seem low.

BrettV said:

Under the Disney Fastpass+ model the morning rides on MF and Maverick likely wouldn't happen (or the window to make them happen would be insanely short) and Magnum and Gemini would have 45 minute standby lines...

Would it though? Cedar Point attendance has not materially changed in years. Can't say the same for WDW.

Jeff said:

While not like California, I think locals are still kind of just "tolerated" here, as pass perks have dwindled over the years. I miss the discount on counter service especially. But I think the tolerance is there because boy do we spend, especially at the festivals. That's why the after-4 Epcot pass exists, which I'm sure is a head scratcher if you're a tourist.

When travel demand slumps—and eventually it will—the local market will feel the love.

Disney Shanghai does paid fast passes. They're pricey enough ($10/ride approximately) but they can be worth it on busy days.

While I haven't done the new Star Wars rides yet, as of this moment I regard the Shanghai version of Pirates as the greatest dark ride I have ever seen.

That 5.2 number sounds like exactly the target the FastPass system was designed to achieve. A few etickets, a few headiners, and a show or M&G can be done prettt easily with no wait.

Jeff said:

BrettV said:

Under the Disney Fastpass+ model the morning rides on MF and Maverick likely wouldn't happen (or the window to make them happen would be insanely short) and Magnum and Gemini would have 45 minute standby lines...

Would it though? Cedar Point attendance has not materially changed in years. Can't say the same for WDW.

I think it would. If someone had, say, a 12:00 for Millennium Force, 2:00 for Steel Vengeance and 3:00 for Maverick, they are going to go to the second tier rides while they wait for 12:00 to roll around rather than crowding the headliners at opening.

Maybe, but why isn't the reverse true with no virtual queue?

Had a walk on for Soarin' today, at 3pm. Time is still listed as 10 minutes, at 6. This is nuts.

Richard Bannister said:

While I haven't done the new Star Wars rides yet, as of this moment I regard the Shanghai version of Pirates as the greatest dark ride I have ever seen.

The Millennium Falcon simulator is definitely a notch or three below Shanghai Pirates. However, Rise of the Resistance gives it a run for its money. It’s been several years since I did Pirates and I was seriously jet lagged, so I wouldn’t necessarily trust my judgement in a comparison, but both are just excellent.

Jeff said:

Maybe, but why isn't the reverse true with no virtual queue?

Had a walk on for Soarin' today, at 3pm. Time is still listed as 10 minutes, at 6. This is nuts.

No idea. But that right there is why I don't like FP+. I'm sure on a Saturday afternoon the park was at least moderately busy. Put Fastpass+ in there and with the current Disney Standby to Fastpass ration you'll be waiting 40 minutes given how many FP+ entitlements they release for each timed window.

That's why I am in favor of the paid systems the other chains use. The number of guests using it on a typical day allows the regular queue to (mostly) continue to pulse through at a pace considerably faster than a Disney standby line. Again going back to my Disney days, but I remember at Kilimanjaro Safaris and Dinosaur the ratio would, at times, be the 90:10 ratio, which means that for every 100 guests coming through the merge point, 90 were Fastpass. And attraction managers would occasionally call for a five minute 100:0 ratio to clear the Fastpass line after a downtime or ride delay. I'm not sure how things run these days, but my experience at other parks is outside of a ride like Steel Vengeance or Hagrids, there shouldn't be that many people in the skip the line queue at a time to begin with.

The question here is does FP+ alter the total number of guests per ride per day? Without fastpass all rides combined in the park have X capacity and Y number of guests who elect to wait in standby. The capacity number does not change with FP+, however if they are giving out 90% of the capacity over fastpass, does then standby line and the fastpass combined increase Y over what it would have been without FP+?

I think you answered your own question. A ride's capacity is static. It can only give so many rides per hour.

Not quite, question was about total riders. Are there more riders with fp+ in place than without on a given day?

If a ride can give 1500 rides an hour over a 12 hour day, it theoretically gives 18,000 rides that day.

The question then becomes how many Fastpass entitlements do you give for the hour? I prefer the Gonch method of only reserving, say, 200 spots an hour to the skip the line folks and charge a premium for it. WDW will instead have 800-900 of those spots reserved for Fastpass, and by doing so there is constant guest flown in the FP line making it so there is never a chance to get a large number of people through standby without interruption

BrettV said:

The question then becomes how many Fastpass entitlements do you give for the hour? I prefer the Gonch method of only reserving, say, 200 spots an hour to the skip the line folks and charge a premium for it.

In my (couple years ago) experience at Cedar Point on a Saturday in July - never again, btw - the ratio appeared to be 50/50. The problem, I believe, with CP's FP process is, there isn't any way to direct the passholders to any particular ride at any particular time. Naturally, a huge portion of the FP crowd goes to Steel Vengeance and Maverick, maybe riding two or three times, and the only way to manage that situation is to dedicate an unreasonable portion of seats to passholders. Unless you want to piss off the people who are paying you the most.

I'll get my experience with whatever system Disney World is using sometime next year. I will say I thought the old paper passes at Disneyland were simple and effective, although I never went on particularly busy days. Other than that, though, I am inclined to agree with whoever it was who said "I don't mind a line as long as it keeps moving," and think the overall experience for everyone is better with 100% standby.

I still think CP undervalues their product both with admission and Fastlane. I'd still like to see Fastlane double in price (at least on Saturdays and peak days) and slash the total number of users. It helps the regular line move faster and gives those who do pay the premium an experience in line with the premium price.

There is a point on the slider where pay to cut becomes pay to wait in a different queue.

I’m really curious for those that oppose FP+ : Are you opposed to it for yourself, for random local, or for random once-every-five-years person? With reseacrch and awareness, it’s basically lots of free rides on lots of things and I still claim that for a casual visitor who isn’t a “ride warrior” it’s so much better.

I oppose it because, to me, it greatly limits what you can do in a day. I liked the old paper tickets because everything was obtained same day and it was limited to a smaller number of attractions.

For a larger group or a group that isn't as focused on doing "everything" or multiple laps on rides, it allows you to guarantee rides on what you do get.

If anything it's not bad for us locals. We can go to a park after work and have our reservation for a few rides. But I still don't care for it, personally.

Even as a local, I'm not sure I see how it limits what you can do in a day. I mean, as a local, most of my visits are about four hours, and I've never had any issue doing four or five attractions in that time. Every couple of years, we'll also stay on-property, and I've never had an issue doing "all the things" with FP in place.