Disney closes anti-obesity exhibit because of negative perception

"Negativity and discrimination" aside, I just don't really like the idea of Disney preaching to my kids.

Having not actually seeing it myself, it sounds like the attraction falls in line with a lot of what Epcot's is.

I still can't believe there's an organization devoted to the "acceptance of overweight people." I accept overweight people, but if I were to devote energy toward anything, it would be toward helping them understand how to be healthier. It's not just the effects on an individual, but on our society overall in terms of health care costs.

I think it's slippery slope territory that leads dangerously close to that fictional future where we all have to do, think and live the same way based on the 'correct' way to be.

The idea that it impacts something like health care costs says more about the general system being broken than anything. My smoking or being overweight or whatever shouldn't cost you (or anyone but me) a dime.

Expecting people to be a certain way or do certain things because of that, is fixing problems from the wrong side of things.

"Number 12 Looks Just Like You."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_12_Looks_Just_Like_You

Lord Gonchar said:

The idea that it impacts something like health care costs says more about the general system being broken than anything. My smoking or being overweight or whatever shouldn't cost you (or anyone but me) a dime.

Which sounds great, unless you're in a shared risk pool, like say, an employer sponsored (or any type of) health insurance plan, or if not that, then Medicare and Medicaid, or respective State plans. There are vey few people who pay for 100% of their health care out of pocket, and at full rates, that don't in turn have negative cost impacts on the system (healthcare providers, etc).

So....... that said....smokers and fatties and drinkers and drug users (and non-helmet motorcycle riders, and so on) do impact the cost of health care through their choices.

but the original topic was whether we should be telling fat people that it's ok to be fat. It's not.

CreditWh0re said:
...smokers and fatties and drinkers and drug users (and non-helmet motorcycle riders, and so on) do impact the cost of health care through their choices.

I know they do. (and said as much)

The problem isn't that they're fat, smokers, drug users or risk takers. The problem is that the system allows their behavior to affect your costs.

I think we should all be allowed to be fat, smoking, drugged up risk takers if we want to be. The fact that the system becomes an excuse for mandating behavior is scary stuff...and proof (in my eyes) that it's broken to some degree.

We're trying to solve the wrong problem.

tambo said:
"Number 12 Looks Just Like You."

That's a classic. :)

After decades of paying into health care risk pools, I'm certainly not getting my money's worth, but someone overweight with heart disease and diabetes, caused by their own bad habits, are taking far more out of that system than they put in. As a safe driver, the same could be said about the money I've put into auto insurance.

Lord Gonchar said:
Expecting people to be a certain way or do certain things because of that, is fixing problems from the wrong side of things.

We don't all live on individual planets. Individual liberty is vitally important, but you can't close your eyes and pretend that your individual actions don't affect others. Disregard for others doesn't make you a patriot for liberty, it just makes you a douchebag. I mean, that's what environmentalism is fundamentally about, that we're stuck sharing the planet, so don't make a mess and leave it with my kids.

As a caring human being, I don't want to see people die of obesity any more than I want to see people starve. The difference is that the former is ultimately a choice (a very difficult physiological and psychological one, obviously), while the latter is not. I've never been as active as I should be in adulthood, because no one ever told me as a child that I had to be active to stay healthy.

And I didn't see the Disney exhibit, so I don't have an opinion on it. I happen to believe that, except in extreme medical exceptions, allowing your kid to get fat is child abuse.

Jeff said:
We don't all live on individual planets. Individual liberty is vitally important, but you can't close your eyes and pretend that your individual actions don't affect others. Disregard for others doesn't make you a patriot for liberty, it just makes you a douchebag.

Agreed.

But if I sit in my back yard and smoke a cigarette (or a joint or a big bowl of crack), it shouldn't affect you one bit.

Saying it does indirectly through things like health care costs seems to be fighting the wrong fight - and a little sleazy in that it comes across as a "valid complaint" (health care costs) for pushing a personal belief on others (I don't think people should X).

There's no reason common courtesy and regard for the rest of existence can't coexist with individual liberties (and quite liberal ones at that).

The only reason my being fat or smoking or whatever affects you indirectly, is because we created a system that lets it. I've been all for premiums that one must pay for such choices. No reason I shouldn't be picking up my costs for my choices - but I should be allowed to make those choices for myself.

Again, the system has failed.

Jeff said:
I've never been as active as I should be in adulthood, because no one ever told me as a child that I had to be active to stay healthy.

Am I misunderstanding you? You are not active because no one told you need to be active? That seems like a weak excuse, especially if you admit that you are not active enough.

I found some video of the attraction. I think Disney closed it because they found out it was telling kids to watch less TV and play fewer video games.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoM38R9xfMs&feature=relmfu

Shades said:
Am I misunderstanding you? You are not active because no one told you need to be active? That seems like a weak excuse, especially if you admit that you are not active enough.

Behavior is learned. It's hard to unlearn. That's an absolute truth. I had a therapist who once said that if your parents sucked at their relationship, it was bad news for you because it was your first and most prominent example of how to conduct yourself in a relationship. Having been through divorce myself and making other poor relationship decisions, I can absolutely validate that.

So it stands to reason that issues of obesity are absolutely rooted in what kids learn (or don't learn). Physical fitness and nutrition weren't on any radar at all when I was in school, either. Combined with other environmental factors, particularly the shift from manual labor to service and desk work, and it's no wonder that we have a problem.

Lord Gonchar said:
There's no reason common courtesy and regard for the rest of existence can't coexist with individual liberties (and quite liberal ones at that)...

Again, the system has failed.

I'm arguing that the system is full of selfish douchebags. That better fits my opinion. :)

I think we should all be allowed to be fat, smoking, drugged up risk takers if we want to be. The fact that the system becomes an excuse for mandating behavior is scary stuff...and proof (in my eyes) that it's broken to some degree.We're trying to solve the wrong problem.

I'm not sure I've ever hear it put better. Unfortunatley, you are not running for office. Nor is ANYBODY I am aware of who realizes that our time, efforts, and money are wasted solving the WRONG problem.

Disregard for others doesn't make you a patriot for liberty, it just makes you a douchebag.

I would argue that the term douchebag is better reserved for those who find it acceptable to tell others how to live their lives. I would also argue that this term better fits the politicians and activists who stupidly waste time, effort, air, and our money solving the WRONG problem.

The fact is that there are "systems" that will allow for individual liberties and health care. The solution in a free country ought to be selected from one of these options.

Lord Gonchar for President! :D

I don't think any of you enthusiasses ought to be commenting on obesity and lifestyle given the fact that none of you care about your health or anyone elses for that matter. Just an observation from some of the coaster events I unfortunately attended. What a joke!

The pot is sturred...

^Many people in society fit Philip's description, I wouldn't put it on coaster enthusiasts. I have met some of the nicest most caring people in coaster geeks (like Travis [LostKause], for example. And several others I have met from Coasterbuzz.)

Says Trolly Trollerton...

I disagree. The coaster enthusiast "scene" is nothing but a clique. If you don't play the part, their not accepting and will not talk to you. That's why I no longer go to roller coaster events. Originally, I was hoping to make some friends. I was wrong.

As far as health is concerned, people that frequently visit amusement parks cannot possibly care about their health. Have you seen the menu lately?

I usually bring my own peanut butter and banana sandwich on double fiber bread, that's pretty healthy.

There are some coaster groups I would never be a part of again ... after one event only.