Disney announces changes to Genie+

Mulfinator:

These are DVC owners...

That's really all you need to know. They're the worst kind of entitled asshole, because they actually think that timeshares are a good deal. I've witnessed so many "do you know who I am"' exchanges with cast members, and they're especially bad on the cruises.

Disney's experiences division is killing it. It's the brightest spot on their results. I don't care for Multipass, but suggesting things are going "downhill" is hyperbole.

I go to Disney, a lot, and always stay at deluxe hotels. It didn’t make sense financially for me so I don’t know how it works for anyone and that’s before factoring in the opportunity costs. It also would have made it harder for me to book when I want to go because I typically want to go during the same times most DVC people want to go (October, early December, late January/early February.)

Cool. We own at DVC. I guess I'm an entitled asshole.

I can't say. But you're definitely not getting a good deal.

Why does that even matter in this conversation? Who cares if it's a "good deal" if someone finds joy in it?

That was the exact discussion in one of the threads. That the cost is irrelevant as long as the feels were there or something to that effect. If I hear timeshare, it's an automatic no, because they usually aren't good deals, unless maybe that is the only thing you do for vacations, then buying in might be worth it.

The only good deals I've gotten from timeshares are the free stays and meals and whatnot for going to the presentations. Besides that, I have no affiliation with them.

I'd argue that Disney Cruises are not a good deal if we are going to play that game.

We are actually well ahead financially on our DVC purchase. We purchased on the resale market in 2017 at Saratoga. 200 points was $12,500. We split that three ways between my parents, my sister, and my brood. Our annual maintenance fees are currently at $1,500.

So for 6 years of maintenance fees and the buy-in we are at $21,500. We've taken three vacations with the large group in a 2-bedroom suite. The cost for those rooms is listed below for the times that we travelled.

Animal Kingdom Jambo House - 4 nights / $6,000

Aulani - 5 nights / $9,000

Grand Californian - 3 nights / $7,500

With just those three vacations we are already ahead. That doesn't include a 10-day stay at Saratoga with our group of four, three or four other 4 day trips my sister and parents took, and the points (100) we sold to pay for our maintenance fees.

Are timeshares right for everyone? Emphatically no. However, given the right circumstance you can get a good value out of them. We bought in because between the three groups we travel to Disney regularly and the numbers worked. Split between three groups it wasn't a huge commitment financially.

As long as you don't think it's an "investment," and you're just pre-paying vacations, good on you. Most people don't get in that cheap. Just be nice to cast members. 🙂 And good luck when you try to sell and your monthly fees have doubled.

Cruising is not an "ownership" proposition. They don't refer to guests as owners, they're not selling it as property.

So my generalization was toxic, sure. I can own that. But let's be contextual... DVC owners complaining about Disney is pretty ridiculous, especially when they act like they should have influence on how the company runs, or that they're better suited to be critical as "experts."

Of course it's not an investment. The main reason that we got in was that the numbers worked for us. It's similar to our decision to go solar. The long term cost of inaction was significantly higher than the short term cost of action. Barring a major crunch for money we have no interest in selling. Our contract expires in 2054, which gives us 30 more years of relatively inexpensive deluxe lodging to enjoy with our family.

I only mentioned DVC ownership of my colleagues to demonstrate that they have a longstanding relationship with the theme parks. In their view the experience over the last few years is lesser. In no way have they ever implied that they are experts in theme park operations or know better than Disney. They are just really big fans who like to vacation at Disney with their families.

And yes I am always pleasant to cast members and everyone in the service industry. Nobody owes me anything.

TheMillenniumRider:

To be fair, the DVC crowd has a tendency to complain about everything.

I was just having this conversation last night: It's not just DVC Members. People are just angry everywhere right now.

Jeff:
they actually think that timeshares are a good deal.

DVC can be, but it depends a lot on where you buy and from whom. And it takes a long time to hit payoff; at least a decade, and often longer. But it can work. Math is math, after all. MouseSavers has what I think of as a fair valuation that (among other things) considers the time-value of money. Not doing that is both wrong and favorable to owning, because it doesn't consider the real value of the up-front cost. It's also something that most DVC fans don't do.

On the other hand the MouseSavers analysis assumes no salvage value. I happen to like that approach, because I can't predict salvage. If I assume it is zero, I can't be disappointed later. But I admit that this is overly conservative for DVC, where there is likely to always be a healthy margin between ongoing costs to own vs. renting the same stays.

https://www.mousesavers.com...pportunity

TheMillenniumRider:

If I hear timeshare, it's an automatic no, because they usually aren't good deals, unless maybe that is the only thing you do for vacations, then buying in might be worth it.

I've had this conversation here before, but I own several, and they can be great. However, I bought them all on the secondary market for something between "better than free" (paid nothing plus got a free year's worth of use) and a dime on the dollar. I would never buy one from the developer at full-freight. In fact, I have never attended a sales presentation. Not once. All of the ones I own have annual costs less than the effective rental rate. As long as that is true, they have value, either to use or to trade.

I have never stayed at some of the ones I own, and have used them only for trading to someone else's timeshare. Many of those someone else's timeshares have been weeks in DVC Villas, and I'm doing that (much) less expensively than even a resale DVC owner could. I also take a LOT of vacations, so not all of them are timeshare-based.

Looking back on close to 20 years of owning them, their real value is that they have encouraged me to make vacations a first-class priority rather than something I fit in around my other commitments. That's all been comfortably within my discretionary budget. Some of those trips have been "Hey, I have this asset that is use-it-or-lose-it; where should I go?"

I'm doing that next month when my son and I are going to split a two-room suite in San Francisco a couple of blocks of Union Square. Effective cost for that is a bit south of $170/night, all-in. I would probably not be doing that if I were left to my own devices. Is that "saving money"? No, because it is a trip I would not otherwise take. Is it a good value? Sure! I get to spend a week with my adult son exploring a city he's never visited, and the price is right.

I don't usually recommend them to others, because they do take a fair bit of planning. But, extracting value from arbitrage opportunities is something I find to be a lot of fun, and the fringe benefits are great. The June week in a 3BR penthouse with two story floor-to-ceiling windows at the top of one of the Hilton Waikiki towers, for example, was awfully nice. The 1BR Villa at Beach Club steps from Epcot's back door during Food & Wine was okay too.

Jeff:

Cruising is not an "ownership" proposition. They don't refer to guests as owners, they're not selling it as property.

Well,,, There is that one ship...

I can't wait to hear what people think of the Marriott Vacation Club folks.

Brian Noble:

I'm doing that next month when my son and I are going to split a two-room suite in San Francisco a couple of blocks of Union Square.

You are going to have a great time. My wife and I stayed at the Ritz-Carlton Club on the corner of Market and Kearny this past April. We really enjoyed the city.

He's lived in LA long enough that anything in the 70s is cold, so I have prepared him for summer in SF.

To bring it back around to Disney--he lives in Brentwood, which is Bob Iger's neighborhood. He lives on the very fringes of Brentwood, but still.

A day pack and removable layers of clothing will be his friend!

Will catch up on this thread later (coming back from NY after few days in Disneyland), but now I “have” to wake up at 4am Pacific to prebook my vacay. Yuck. But at least it’s just once and it’s not on vacay.

We did do our last half day in DL without G+. I feel like we did pretty well, line-wise, mostly waiting <20 min while tiding Space, Thunder x3, and Millennium Falcon, as well as lots of Fantasyland stuff, but we had done all the major stuff the day before using G+. I think if you’re not worried about FOMO, you can have a great day without some pay-to-cut system, but if you will be disappointed by missing any e-ticket, then yeah, you should probably pony up.

I think there are a lot of people who don't suffer from FOMO. They are looking to have a good time, and you don't have to check any given specific items off a list to do so. Just avoid talking with your friends who are Disney freaks when you get back who will tell you that you did everything wrong, missed out on so many "can't miss" attractions and didn't really have a good time. Despite the memories, pics, etc that say otherwise.

I’ve gone to WDW countless times during G+ and never bought it. I’ve done just fine.

I am heading to Tokyo Disney later this month, and it was quite a different process to book a "Vacation Package" compared to what you need to do at the other Disney parks, which was Disneyland Paris the last time I needed to book.

Tokyo Disney offers both room-only hotel stays and the "Vacation Package," where you bundle a lot of stuff together, and the price reflects that. Want to pre-book ride reservation slots? There is a vacation package for that. Want to see shows, parades, and prebook all your restaurants? There is a vacation package for that. As I am going for Space Mountain closing day, the Attractions package suits my needs. I had to put in dates, choose my vacation package type, and then select a hotel and room type. I had to select all my ride reservation slots and pick my breakfast time before I finally got a price. For 1 night/2 park days, including a single buffet breakfast for two and the ride reservations, it came up to 1300$ USD. It's expensive, but it makes things a lot easier over there.

It's like having to prebook your fast pass and restaurant priority seating all at once and then getting a price quote if you were booking for Walt Disney World.