Wednesday, November 7, 2001 4:38 AM
Out of curiosity, did Arrow recieve any compensation from the Steel Phantom conversion to Revenge of the Phantom? I know Morgan was once part of Arrow, but now they are separate companies. In my opinion, this makes Arrow look bad because the original coaster had to be redone. Another question is, did Kennywood pay for the coaster in full already and because of that, they can do whatever they want to it?
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 4:54 AM
Compensation for what? The coaster belongs to Kennywood. The moment it was out of Arrow's warrenty period Kennywood could do anything with it they wanted.Morgan was always seperate from Arrow. Dana Morgan is Ed Morgan's son, and as I recall he formed his company after his father Karl Bacon sold Arrow.
Did it make Arrow look bad when Morgan redesigned and rebuilt it? Probably. But's that's what it's like in big business.
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 5:21 AM
I was under the impression that David Morgan(CEO and President of Morgan Manufacturing) was once an engineer with Arrow until he began his own company. My question was is Steel Phantom already paid for in full, meaning it belongs exclusively to Kennywood? Also meaning they are not still paying for it, and that is why they did not need permission from Arrow to redo the coaster?
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 5:27 AM
If you are still paying off your car, do you need permission from the car company or the bank to modify it?
everything's better with a banjo
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 5:43 AM
Ok, good point Millrace.
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 6:06 AM
I was under the impression that David Morgan(CEO and President of Morgan Manufacturing) was once an engineer with Arrow...My question was is Steel Phantom already paid for in full
It's Dana Morgan and he was the son of one of Arrow's founders. When Arrow built Disneyland, Dana was 'testing' the teacups. D.H. Morgan was building carousels, coaster trains and other things before he built his first hyper.
And even when SP was first built, the park didn't owe Arrow anything. Arrow owed them a viable product. Outside of that...well, put it this way: Does Ford Motor Company still own your new Taurus...or does the bank that gave you the loan? Even when a cash-strapped park creatively finances a new ride (cough..Visionland), it's through a third party, not the manufacturer.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 11/7/2001. ***
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 6:17 AM
Considering nearly every moving part on the ride (except the restraints) is still Arrow hardware, Arrow is still making money selling spare parts to Kennywood. Wheels, train chassis, lift mechanism, brakes (except the magnetic trim), computer, etc etc. Morgan just supplied new car bodies, restraints, and track... mostly parts that don't require frequent replacement.
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 6:29 AM
...Even when a cash-strapped park creatively finances a new ride (cough..Visionland), it's through a third party, not the manufacturer...
Unless of course you're Vekoma which extended credit to Six Flags, essentially financing the 3 Deja Vu's and filing for bankruptcy as a result. Coaster makers should stick to making coasters, not financing a company with an alleged 6 billion dollar debt.
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 7:02 AM
Good point, seth; that's also how Chance got into trouble, by serving as a finance guarantor on rides they eventually had to repossess.
Dana Morgan is not only the son of Ed Morgan who, along with Karl Bacon, practically invented the steel roller coaster, at one time he was the President of Arrow Development (or was it Arrow-Huss; I don't remember the timing.) At one of the buy-out points...I believe it was when Arrow bought itself out from Huss and moved to Utah...Dana went on to form his own company. It's also worth noting that at least one other person from Morgan, designer and engineer Steve Okamoto, not only once worked for Arrow Dynamics, but probably also had a hand in the original Steel Phantom project.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Who, fortunately, has no connection to any of the companies involved...
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 8:05 AM
In my opinion, this makes Arrow look bad because the original coaster had to be redone.
I don't think Arrow looks bad because of Phantom's Revenge. When Arrow built the Steel Phantom back in 1991, steel multi-inversion coasters were all the rage, as Shockwave (SFGAm), GASM (SFGAdv), Viper (SFMM) and Anaconda (PKD) all prove. A decade ago, a steel coaster had to have the requisite vertical loop, boomerang and corkscrew elememts, and Arrow was known for providing coasters with those inversions. Simply put, SP was a sign of the times back in 1991.
If anything, I feel PR is a credit to Arrow's work, as certain parts of the ride were good enough to be incorperated into a new coaster design when they could have easily been removed altogether (although at a slightly higher "new coaster" cost). Of course, I am sure that Arrow is just a little pissed that they weren't given the okay to turn "their" Phantom into a hyper coaster when they were the ones that defined the genre!
Wednesday, November 7, 2001 7:45 PM
All we got from Kennywood was a few tears and a lot of laughter (most notably from Kenny Kon'ers who would have rather JUMPED the 225 feet). :)
Not quite Cola, not quite Root Beer, not quite Asphalt!
Model coasters and rides: www.angelfire.com/oh4/tk173
Thursday, November 8, 2001 12:08 AM
Actually, you will find that Kennywood did approach Arrow, asking for a modification of Steel Phantom, but Arrow no longer make hypercoasters, as they were at the time very tied up in 4D, arrowBATic and other innovative designs. So Kennywood went to Morgan, a company that not only makes superb hypercoasters, but also uses a nearly identical track guage and style.