Dells Extreme World operator charged in accident smoked pot three days earlier

Sometimes I go out of my way to be rude, too. You big jerk.

Being rude is one thing. Being rude while being ignorant is also one thing, but it's more annoying (though not at all surprising).

Raven-Phile said:
Sometimes I go out of my way to be rude, too. You big jerk.

No, I'm DIGUESTING! And You're un-American.

djDaemon said:
I find it interesting, Jeff, that you "buck" certain norms & trends (like wearing a certain type of clothing to work) because they're nonsensical, yet you adhere so strongly to the nonsensicality (which is probably a real word in Alaska) of pot's illegality. Yeah, it's illegal, but we all know it shouldn't be. Frankly, I'd be more likely to hire someone who didn't adhere so strongly to such an absurd technicality. That trait shows the ability for critical thought.

Wow, there are at least a billion assumptions here, all of them wrong.

If I question authority or "buck" some kind of norm, I don't do it because I want to be a rebel or popular at school or stick it to The Man, I do so because I have exercised the "critical thought" you're talking about.

Furthermore, at no time did I defend, endorse or refute the legal status of pot. It is, in fact, currently illegal. "We" don't know it should be illegal. What kind of ridiculous generalization is that?

When something is not legal, you don't do it anyway because you know better. No one wins. If you feel the law is wrong, you make an effort to change the law.

Tekwardo said:

No, I'm DIGUESTING! And You're un-American.

Oh. Crap.Ummm.. I don't know how to respond to that. :-|

"We" don't know it should be illegal.

Yeah, and while there are a lot of people who don't smoke weed, but don't think it should be illegal, there are those who don't smoke it and think it should be, so I don't agree with all of dj's statement (and I'd still meet him at Knoebels ;-) ).

I know plenty of people who are non conformists, but they don't feel that pot should be legal. Personally, I don't care either way, because I wouldn't smoke it either way, just like I don't smoke cigarettes, which are legal. It's my choice. But I don't think that people who come across as non conformist have to be that way about everything.

Raven-Phile said:
Oh. Crap.Ummm.. I don't know how to respond to that. :-|

Just think of something by PPP. If I don't cancel... ;-)

Jeff said:
When something is not legal, you don't do it anyway because you know better.

That, to me, exhibits a lack of critical thought. You're saying it's wrong, so we shouldn't do it. Where's the critical thought there? You're just doing as you're told.

If you feel the law is wrong, you make an effort to change the law.

And I do. But I'm not going to adhere to the law in the mean time.

It has nothing to do with "sticking it to The Man". It has to do with my civil liberties, and what laws are designed to do. An law that actually causes more problems than it solves should not be adhered to, period.

Jeff said:
"We" don't know it should be illegal. What kind of ridiculous generalization is that?

Well, if cigarettes, alcohol and things like aspirin and Tylenol are legal, then yeah, "we" should agree that marijuana should be legal as well. If you don't, I'd suggest you don't know what you're talking about.

Critical thinking leads me to change the law, not break it.

I'm multi-tasking. :)

If we didn't hire people because they break the law what do we do with all those who purposely drive over the speed limit daily?

I have never been tested for drugs as part of a job requirement.

That, to me, exhibits a lack of critical thought. You're saying it's wrong, so we shouldn't do it. Where's the critical thought there? You're just doing as you're told.

I don't think that not doing something because its against the law, even if you don't agree with it, is lacking critical thought. I think speed laws on a lot of highways are stupid, especially when there are areas where straight roads have no posted speed limits seem to work. I disagree with the law.

But I'm not going to illegally go 120mpg when the posted sign says 55. It isn't just 'doing as I'm told', it's having respect for authority. And until that law changed, I'd follow it as best I could. That still doesn't mean I lack critical thinking.

Edit: looks like 8.3 and I wanted to talk about speeding :).

Tekwardo said:
But I'm not going to illegally go 120mpg when the posted sign says 55. It isn't just 'doing as I'm told'...

I agree. But you're not driving excessively fast because doing so would be dangerous. There is no such danger when it comes to smoking pot, especially relative to consuming alcohol, for example.

To me it's not even about respecting authority, it's about functioning in a democratic society. I'm not "doing what I'm told," because, call me naive, but we're self-governed. That's why we've been able to grow as a nation to overturn blatantly immoral things like slavery or prohibiting women to vote. If people gave a crap more about important things, perhaps we'd be a significantly better nation by now.

I think ignoring completely baseless laws is functioning in a democratic society. And vital to it.

Few politicians will touch legalizing pot (though that's changing, albeit slowly) because there's so much misinformation about it, and as such, people are not likely to vote for such a platform.

But, if my breaking that law while simultaneously being a productive, functioning member of this democratic society helps prove that their misconceptions are incorrect, then perhaps I've aided my democratic society-mates. I might not get the same result without walking the walk.

I agree with the 2nd part, but the first I don't. If I'm going 55 and get in an accident, it may or may not be worse than going 120. The safety factors in regardless of if I'm going 55 or 120, but that doesn't mean I'm not following the rules and not thinking critically.

If I'm smoking pot or drinking, I shouldn't drive, because both would be illegal. But aside from the fact that alcohol is legal to drink, even if I weren't morally opposed to smoking pot, I wouldn't do it because it was illegal. And not because I'm just another brick in the wall, but because I respect laws, even if I don't agree with them.

I dunno. I see following laws that make no sense (as in, ignoring them has zero negative impact on anyone else) as very dangerous. If we're not willing to ignore such laws, I'm afraid of where that could lead.

ADDED: I think you may have misunderstood my post as suggesting I was condoning driving while stoned.

I think people do care about more important things. We could be spending the money being used on the drug "war" on education and treatment rather than punishing petty users.

djDaemon said:
There is no such danger when it comes to smoking pot, especially relative to consuming alcohol, for example.

That is so not true. The dangers associated with lung disease alone are substantial. It is something you smoke. I'm sure the actual scientific studies by universities are available if you look around for them, but chronic use in particular is known to inhibit learning and harm short-term memory. If you toke up as a teen, you're something like 50 times more likely to try other, more serious drugs.

Ask my 34-year-old brother living at home with my mom if weed is dangerous. I think he'll give you a well-informed "yes."

I think that depends on the law. How is it a danger if no one smoked weed? Looking back at Prohabition, how did not drinking alochol hurt anyone?

If someone came in and took away our freedom of speech, our right to religion, or something like that, it's dangerous because that gets in to basic human rights.

But telling us we can't go 120mph, we can't smoke weed, neither one is something that is going to have a major impact on our life or rights.

ADDED: I think you may have misunderstood my post as suggesting I was condoning driving while stoned.

No, I got that, I realized what you were saying. That wasn't why I brought up driving, I was just looking for a simple way to explain it :-).

Jeff, I know plenty of people who live at home and have never smoked pot in their lives. They are just lazy. There are just as many studies done about alcohol that show that alcohol abuse will lead to bad stuff happening. Yet, beer is legal.

Most of the "pot heads" I know well enough to know their habits are functioning adults with full time jobs, masters degrees and houses.

Also, marijuana is not just for smoking.