Deer Park Funland merchandise, before Michigan's Adventure

Jeph said:
lol! I think this thread may have been a disguised MA rant. I blame kpjb! ;)

Timber-Rider: First off, get your facts straight before ranting. You claimed that Cedar Fair made $1 billion last year and only invested $90 billion this year. Then, you followed with posts about greed, assuming that Cedar Fair hoarded $910 million in profits. False. Cedar Fair had a 2011 profit of $72.2 million. That's right...they're investing more money ($90 million) in their parks this year than they made last year. Oh and for reference, Cedar Fair lost $31.6 million in 2010.

I was only stating what I read at the Cedar Fair website, which listed the amounts of money they made in 2011 from all of their parks combined. It is also where I found the facts for the "potential customer" areas for each park, in which they claimed Michigan's Adventure had a potential draw of 5 million guests per season. And I didn't say they invested 90 billion, I said 90 million. and made a billion. I think it was in the investors section. Showing how much money they made, percentage increases in guest spending and what not. Big numbers being thrown around. I could be wrong. But, You can't have 3 million guest at one park at $50.00 a hit just for admission. That alone is 150 million dollars. Take the other big parks, kings Island, and Canadas Wonderland, which also draw 3 million each year 9 to 10 million just for those 3 parks also at $50.00 each just for admission, and that's 1/2 a billion just on admission at 3 parks. So, when I read that all of their parks combined grossed over a billion dollars, I tend to agree.

Not every park guest pays full price for their admission. Coupons, Group discounts, and especially season passholders, who may pay $10 or $20 per visit, are some examples.

Just saying.

Sorry if it seems I am being a bully, Billy. I get irritable when I am annoyed. Sometimes I am a teddy bear, and sometimes I am a cranky bear. lol

Potential customers /= actual customers. It doesn't take into effect competing parks, or even parks within Cedar Fair itself.

Since MI is taking from the same market as SFGA and CP, it's probably less

Hey Jonnytips.

In the investor relations comment of Michigan's Adventure having a potential 5 million visitors per season, only took into account people from west michigan, and the immediate area. It did not include the masses coming from Chicago or the Detroit area, or those who hold season passes from other Cedar fair parks, like Cedar Point or Kings Island, and the money that they might bring with them.

It did mention the fact that MA has only one potential competitor in Great America, as the other near by parks are owned by Cedar Fair. Not sure if they included Indiana beach. But, I guess they must assume that the IB park isn't major competition. But, I think they are going with minimal numbers as the metro areas of Grand Rapids, Muskegon, and other cities within 75 miles of the park probably have a combined poulation of 2 million by itself. The park draws guest from 5 states and Canada. So the 5 million amount is tiny compared to their entire market area, which is probably closer to 25 million, expecially if you include people coming from Chicago. And they do get a lot.

The entire west michigan coast is pretty much Chicago's playland.

Hey Jeph:

Here is something you might not have considered. When Cedar Fair claimed that they lost 31 million dollars, is it possible that the loss was a 31 million dollar loss from the previous years profit? Say they made 231 million in 2009 in profits, but in 2011, they only had 200 million in profits, which result in a loss of 31 million according to them, even though they made 200 million dollars.

When a company claims they lost money, it doesn't mean that they are in the red, sometimes it is simply a percentage reduction in the money they earned the previous year, or however they pro-rate their profits quarterly, bi-annual, or anually. Even our company claimed that they lost 5 million dollars, while the company as a whole was raking in 2 billion annually. So the losses they are reporting, aren't the whole picture of their annual business. That 31 million might only be a 5 percent loss in there total profit. They are making huge amounts of money, otherwise they would not be in business.

So now you're rewriting the definition of accounting terms? Loss means money lost. Not less.

They are making huge amounts of money, otherwise they would not be in business.

And seeing as how they're a business:

A) The whole point is to make lots of money.

B) The way to make lots of money is to get people to spend money while cutting expenses.

You know, like raising prices on the gate while not spending money on rides at a park that doesn't need it.

Timber,

As Jeff said, money lost is just that. In operating all the Cedar Fair parks in 2010, they had more expenses than revenue, and they posted a loss.

I think you're confusing revenue with profit. In 2011 for example, Cedar Fair did have over 1 billion in revenue (the amount of money taken in), but after deducting all expenses, they only made around 72 million.

Considering the cost of a major new coaster is $20-30 million, $72 million really isn't a ridiculously huge profit. This is why we're seeing a stronger push for up-charge attractions, increased prices, etc. Because as you said, if the parks are not making money, they're going to eventually go out of business.