CW and "unreasonable" enforcement of line jumping policy

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080526.LINEUP26/TPStory/

I was actually impressed with how security handled line jumping at the preview night. Some kids recognized friends near the front of the line and tried to join, and secruity showed up right away and pulled them out.

It's hard to have a grey area with a line jumping policy. But if a wait time is over 3 hours not sure if telling people "they should have held it" instead of using the washroom isn't a solution. When I was a ride op dealing with line jumpers was usually reactionary to someone complaining about it. If strangers vouched that the alleged jumpers had been waiting then they could stay. If people in line don't care that someone left to take a leak, then it's not really an issue.

I think it's good that CW is being proactive but there's got to be a better way to handle things. Considering this artical was in the Globe & Mail today it's already becaome a PR issue *** Edited 5/27/2008 2:14:30 AM UTC by Cropsey***

Apparently that guy never learned a lesson that my mom taught me when I was a kid:

Go to the bathroom before you leave for anywhere, or get in any line.

^It's a 3 hour line. How can you guarantee that you won't have to go bathroom in that period of time? Maybe, you drank a lot, or other things are happening.

I'm on the side of the people that left the line, and wanted to come back in line. They only left for let's say 4 minutes, and came back in line. How in the heck is that a big deal? In my opinion, it's not. It's the people that have some friend that's up there that are the problem. To me, it's not the people that go to get food, and go back to where they were at.

How can you tell that people leave, and come back? You see the people leave, and come back soon after. It's not like you don't see them in line at all. I'm totally against people that play my friend is up there trick, but not against these people that want food, and want to go to the restroom.

On a ride at Great America, this guy was in line, and than he gets nachos. I see him leave the line, and he's back in like 3 minutes tops, and than security comes, and tells him that he has to go in back of the line. That's just stupid to me. He was with his wife, and girlfriend.

For a 3 hour line, you can't go back in line. That has to be horrible!! *** Edited 5/27/2008 2:11:42 AM UTC by Spinout***

Line jumping is line jumping. I fully support the park on this one.

What's stopping a group of friends queuing up then having another person join them later? They can say the person was there all the time.

I think it's ridiculous that someone got kicked out of line for using the vending machines IN THE QUEUE. That's what those machines are there for.

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Spinout said:
On a ride at Great America, this guy was in line, and than he gets nachos. I see him leave the line, and he's back in like 3 minutes tops, and than security comes, and tells him that he has to go in back of the line. That's just stupid to me. He was with his wife, and girlfriend.

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With his wife and girlfriend? He's got balls to bring both of them together to an amusement park with him! ;)

I also have a problem with the guy who was passed while patronizing the vending machine in the queue. Then again, you could argue that the people he was with should have stopped in their tracks, not let anyone pass, and wait until he made his purchase.

For anyone else who leaves the line, sorry, but the rules are the rules. If you allow potty breaks, then anybody could conceivably try to cut the line saying they were just using the restroom. How could someone monitor the entire queue all day long to check who's coming and going and for what reason?

I was thinking the same thing about the wife and girlfriend. Awk-ward! ;)

But I have to agree that leaving the line is leaving the line. That's why the park posts the wait time. If you can't wait 3 hours, then don't get in line.

As for the guy who stopped at the vending machine while in line, if they want to get technical, all the people who passed the guy in line were line jumping. They are the ones who should have been told about it.

*** Edited 5/27/2008 3:07:45 AM UTC by Carrie M.*** *** Edited 5/27/2008 3:23:47 AM UTC by Carrie M.***

I remember back in 2003 when waiting 4.5 hrs for Top Thrill Dragster, they would issue you *one* bathroom pass. It was a little piece of paper, and they wrote the time on it. You had 10 minute from that time to come back into the line where you were. I thought it worked very effectively. This way, you could not re-enter without the paper, and if you took too long, then obviously you lost your spot in the line.

Maybe, something similar to this would be an effective measure to use, especially in circumstances where you are dealing with a 3+ hr wait. Especially Since you're only in the park for what, 12 hrs? thats 1/4 of your day, and 1/4 of your admission paid to stand in line. Someone needs to figure out something for the situation.

PS - I like the headline there, "Not amused at the park" loves it

*** Edited 5/27/2008 3:28:27 AM UTC by xX eNeRtIa Xx***

That's an interesting idea. But how do you police *where* that place in the line is?

For new rides or ones that constantly have long lines, they should put temporary or permanent restrooms somewhere in the line, maybe in the middle of the line. That would solve the problem.

But bathroom patrons would get passed in line as they were doing their paper work.

Give each patron a numbered ticket when they walk into line. You must present your ticket upon entering the loading platform, and in the correct sequential order. That ticket could also be used as your bathroom pass, which could be used to write the time on, giving you that 10 minute window. It would be your own responsibility to find your proper place back in line.

^Six Flags did this during the Time Warner era. It was called a boarding pass system and used for rides with big wait times. Sequentially numbered tickets were handed out at the entrance to the line, then were collected near the loading dock. If you didn't have a pass or the numbers were drastically out of order you didn't ride, and in some cases could be ejected from the park. Not sure how the bathroom pass thing would apply but I guess the sequential number would be fine if you found your friends back in line again.

Since it required extra staffing and security, Premier/SFI ditched this when they came in.

So why stand in line at all? Just get a number and return when your number is up.

They could even have one of those "Now Serving" signs. ;)

You guys do realize you're just discussing variations on the virtual queue system, right? :)

My take on this particular situation?

Make people wait it out. It's the only way lines for wildly popular new attractions like this will stay even remotely reasonable.

Give everyone a number or allow people to come and go from the line as they please and suddenly you have day-long waits because it's no big deal to tough it out when you don't have to actually stay in line.

No one is going to physically stand in a 8 hour line. The ridiculousness fixes itself. Give everyone a virtual spot (by letting them come and go as they please) and the 'fix' is gone.

Wait it out or don't ride.

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RatherGoodBear said:
I also have a problem with the guy who was passed while patronizing the vending machine in the queue. Then again, you could argue that the people he was with should have stopped in their tracks, not let anyone pass, and wait until he made his purchase.

For anyone else who leaves the line, sorry, but the rules are the rules. If you allow potty breaks, then anybody could conceivably try to cut the line saying they were just using the restroom. How could someone monitor the entire queue all day long to check who's coming and going and for what reason?

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The vast majority of people are going to follow rules whether they are well enforced or not... especially in a situation like this which would require odd circumstances (a large group of people untruthfully vouching for a line jumper). You just have to realize that that sort of situation is rare. I understand it is frustrating when a kid jumps in line in front of you, but that doesn't mean you have to be unreasonable in a situation where the ride is breaking down and one guy has to use the restroom. That is like bringing a rocket launcher to try to kill an ant.

If everyone around is vouching for these people, you should just believe them. Most people follow rules and tell the truth. I suppose some people will cut and then a large number of people around them will lie for them, but that number will be so small it is obsolete... You have to let it slide... especially in extreme circumstances where ride times are abnormally long such as the situation described in the story.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with you at all.

I can understand both sides of the argument on this one. I do agree that in the course of a three hour line, people will have to go to the bathroom and may have to leave the line. They should not be penalized for having to go to the bathroom. Maybee CW should re-design the que area and add a bathroom in the middle of it. If they can't do that, maybee some type of number ticketing system and if someone has to leave the line and re-enter, their numbered ticket will let an operator know they were already in line.

I do not like blatant line-jumping and think that it causes longer wait times for those of us who play by the rules. I have seen people at other parks actually removed from the park for line jumping. Universal IOA was one experience like that.

This truly is a very sticky situation. On one hand you want to discourage line jumping but on the other you don't want people to be upset by not being able to use the bathroom

Maybe this was mentioned in a post above (I sort of skimmed them), but my solution would be to close the line off from letting any more people enter if in fact the line got too long (more than 3 hours is probably on the "too long" side), and hasn't Shapiro even stated that waiting in line too long starts to hurt per caps?

I don't think trying to hold it for 3 hours is unreasonable, especially if you go before getting in line.

Lastly, as someone who normally eats "very light" while at parks, but does regularly use the vending machines in the queues (as quicker and cheaper alternatives), I've always thought it was understood that as you use the machine and the line passes you by that you are forfeiting your position until the transaction is done! I mean, *maybe* 10 people at most will pass you!?!

I have seen line jumpers in 10 minute lines let alone 3hr. Personaly I will not wait more than 90min for ANY ride.

I was at Kings Island on Friday and line jumping was terrible on Delirium. I was in the 3rd row of the queue and saw a person in the 4th row. Shortly afterwards I was in the 2nd row of the queue and he was in the first row!

The worst was a group of middle school kids and their adult(?) chaperone. (They were all wearing the same style of T-shirt). The chaperone was calling other kids to line-jump and join her. If they all wanted to ride at the same time they should have gotten in line together. A lady got fed up with this and started arguing with the chaperone and the chaperone was loud and obnoxious. Several others of us argued with her about setting a bad example for the kids but she just held up her hand and turned away.

Security was called over and eventually escorted the line jumpers back 2 rows but the chaperone wasn't moved since she had 'legally' been in that row.

I complimented some of the kids for not line jumping and said that they were setting a good example.

Other than that it was a great day at Kings Island.