Customer Service in the 00's

Funny, I avoid Meijer unless I actually need to buy a gallon of paint and a loaf of bread in the same trip. I gladly pay more at a locally-owned grocer for three reasons:

1) They have what I want. I sometimes want a really good piece of cheese. Not processed cheese food, but actual honest-to-god cheese. Something other than cheddar, swiss, or "co-jack" whatever the heck that is. The produce is better. The beer selection is better. The chicken isn't injected with 15% saltwater. You get the idea.

2) I wait 5 minutes to check out, rather than 20, because cash registers are open, baggers are available, and cashiers are competent. At the rates I bill clients as a consultant, that 15 minutes is almost always worth more than the extra I spend on the merchandise.

3) They do not have those ridiculous self-service checkout lines. Those things basically scream "our time is worth more than yours."

Grated, if I'm buying a week's worth of groceries/staples, I will sometimes visit a cheaper place. I also buy my paper products and a few other nonperishable items at a warehouse club, because it scales well. But, the quality of product and service is often worth the extra money to me.

Finally, I understand that this might not be true for everyone---the time/money tradeoff is different for different people. But, there is a market for good service and quality product. It's not a mass market, but it is nontrivial in size.

Edit: I almost forgot what is perhaps my worst grocery customer service story ever. I needed a bag of ice, and was driving by a Kroger not far from my house. So I go to the express lane that's five people deep, get to the front, and ask the cashier to ring me up a bag of ice. She tells me "you have to go get it so I can scan it." Well, folks, there is a reason that the ice is right by the door---it's so you can pay for it at the register, and pick it up on your way out, preventing it from melting all over the expensive laser scanners that are now ubiquitous in grocery stores.

I finally talk her into ringing it up without the bag. But, she doesn't know the code, so she has to look it up. She can't find the code. None of the other casheirs anywhere near her know the code, nor can they manage to look it up. A manager walks by, and says he thinks it's <some #>. She types in <some #>, which promptly locks her register. At this point, she looks at me and tells me "next time, you really have to bring the bag up so I can scan it."

My answer: "There won't be a next time." I walked out of the store, and to the gas station across the street, where I paid $.30 less for the bag of ice than I would have at Kroger, the whole transaction taking about a minute and a half.

That was a bout 1.5 years ago, and I have never set foot in that store since. Not once. *** Edited 6/30/2004 7:37:41 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

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Impulse-ive said:
What bug did I drive up your butt Jeff? Or have I just expanded all of my free opinions and must now submit them for approval before posting?

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Give it a rest. Just because it happens to be me that disagrees with you doesn't mean I'm picking on you or whatever. You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean I will agree with you. God, you'd think I deleted all of your posts and defecated on your front door. Just participate in the debate, eh?

Wal-Mart is not, last I checked, a hospitality business. I don't think it has anything to do with the discussion. (But if you wanted to go there, the former "Made in the USA" Wal-Mart is the single biggest importer of Chinese goods to the US. It has used its power to put many, many companies out of business by driving the acceptable price they'll pay below vendors' costs. See: Vlasick Pickles.)

Let's talk about the industry. Six Flags earnings have been taking a dump for years now, and their reputation sucks in almost every market. While this is going on, other regional parks, especially the independent ones, report one record year after another. Why do you suppose that is? It's the customer service.

While Geauga Lake has had mixed reviews this year, most will concede that overall it's running better than it had in the last six years. As you might recall, many of their employees are getting paid less than before. If wages can be connected to the level of customer service, how do you explain that?

You've heard the cliché a million times. Have a good time, tell a friend. Have a bad time, tell ten friends. That, my friends, is your bottom line in the hospitality industry.

<---Never been in a Walmart.

<---Never GOING to be in a Walmart.

Nor a BeeGee for that matter. ;)

In this day and age, it's all about talking with your money. You want better customer service, give it to the folks who give you better service. Want a cleaner environment? Buy a hybrid. Don't care for outsourcing or child labor? Uh...gosh...start a commune?

Seriously though, go for the lesser of the two evils if you have to.

I think it also helps to fill out the cards as Wahoo said. It also helps to thank them directly. Actually, that helps a LOT.

Higher wages don't automatically translate into better service, but they can---if you pay more than the next guy for similar skills, you're likely to get a larger share of potential employees who'd want to work for you. This lets you skim the cream off the crop, and gives you more freedom to fire people when you skim the wrong folks, because you know you'll have 4-5 people who'd be happy to replace the person you fire.

For this to work, you have to pay more (or offer more rewards in some other way) AND you have to work hard in hiring and evaluation AND you have to be willing to let people go.

People actually buy groceries at Wal-Mart or Meijer? I'm shocked.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Who uses both for General Merchandise, but prefers Big Bird or Oakland Market for groceries...

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or "co-jack" whatever the heck that is

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Bald guy. Lollipop. "Who loves ya baby?" That sort of thing. ;)

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While Geauga Lake has had mixed reviews this year, most will concede that overall it's running better than it had in the last six years. As you might recall, many of their employees are getting paid less than before. If wages can be connected to the level of customer service, how do you explain that?

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Exactly. Higher pay rates do not equate better employees.

Training and work enviroment mean a lot.

However in my bleak world view, I think people have just changed. A job isn't an opportunity to help some and get paid in return or prove yourself in any way these days. It's a paycheck.

I really think the attitude of many of today's workforce (especially at the level we're talking here) is along the lines of:

1. I need money.

2. I get a job and they give me money.

3. If I show up for X number of hours a day, I get that money.

As opposed to:

1. I need money.

2. I find a job.

3. I do well and prove myself as a competent worker and they have a reason to keep me around and pay me for my effort.

You'll find more of 'Employee B' in my example by offering a great work environment, training, etc. than by simply slapping money on the table.

EDIT - got pulled away in the middle of that post and some others slipped in...

I agree with Brian, contrary to what I just posted - but only when we're talking skilled positions. In this case I don't believe we are. (or are we?)

*** Edited 6/30/2004 8:46:32 PM UTC by Lord Gonchar***

But tell someone who's grown up watching the dot-coms hire just about anybody to do just about nothing, then let them go at the drop of a hat, and who's grown up in a time when "company loyalty" is something the old farts talk about around the water cooler, that they should perform well so their company holds on to them. Doesn't matter how well you perform, if the stock's going down and the profits are sinking, if your position is seen as expendable, doesn't matter how customer-friendly you are, you're out the door.

If in your points for Employee B a company actually showed that simply being a competent worker is reason enough to have job security and maybe even an increasing paycheck, and that it doesn't require a lot of luck (you can't completely control the movement of the market, no matter how hard you try) then maybe you'd see more of B. But, as it is, job security/loyalty are antiquated terms, so why do anything more than just work for your paycheck and go home and do something that actually gets you a RETURN on your investment of time and effort (like goofing off at an amusement park)

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rollergator said:

Jeremy, are you running for President yet?

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Actually, there is a regulation that prevents a Federal Employee from running for a public office. I've not yet figured out how Pres. Bush and Sen Kerry got around that....

Anywhoo, what I've found most suprising about Six Flags is that their more notorious properties seem to be those with great competition (SFWoA, SFMM, SFA) while the "loner" parks seem to be alright (SFGAm, SFFT). If anything, one would think that it would be the opposite. I wonder sometimes if the brass ever makes suprise visits to the parks. Or better yet, send some of their family/friends to get an "in-the-flesh" look at the parks. It's my feeling that most would be so pissed off that *MANY* people would get fired if they even had half as bad of a day as many TRs here report.

It just seems to me to be the right thing to do.

lata, jeremy

I would be shocked if the "brass" doesnt allready know.

Its pretty obvious Six Flags corporate doesnt have much control of their parks. Ever try contacting Six Flags corporate?

I think good, quality CS provided by larger companies and corperations is trending to be offered on a reactive basis only. Cost for Service Ops is something easy to cut for someone in an upper management postion. Too often an issue with service must be "escalated" beyond a front line employee so that a company's procedure for handling an issue may be addressed with respect to a customer's specific situation.

Too often it is required for a customer to get upset or complain to get anything done. A good business plan along with competant managment could fix this, but those two things seem hard to come by these days...

and I think that's too bad!

What can we do about this as individuals? My answer is to take the responsibility and be an educated consumer, and don't patron places with poor customer service; very much like people's experiences above.

Scott [it's my field, had to throw down]

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RideMan said:
People actually buy groceries at Wal-Mart or Meijer? I'm shocked.

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Actually, Dave, there's a check-out guy at the Jasper Wal-Mart who is a dead-ringer for YOU!

Honestly...I did a double-take. :)

Paula

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I'll say this much....I actually HAD a job as a "secret shopper" for a while...back in the crazy 80s. Want the real funny part? It was for McDonald's...:)

I can't help it, wherever I am, that little part of me that says "What's John Q. Public think about X" (not the ride, mind you, the *variable*)...that is why I don't only report about MY day at the park (if I actually got around to writing TRs), but more germane to the topic, "What was the park like on the day I was there"....sure, it might have been a stellar day for that park, or an off day, but it was the day the PARK had, and while it might not be an *average day*, it's what I'd reasonably expect if I were to go back.

If my friends are going to SFAW, I'd go with them, but with expectations based on my prior experience...would I allow the staff there to "ruin my day"? Not a bit, 'cause I am there to have FUN. But if that's what their park was like AFTER they had "customer service training", I shudder to think what the park was like in '02....or, as Bass put it, "Now I understand why that guy from RRC is so angry all the time"....;)

The moral of the story: Surpass your customers' expectations, and you will be rewarded in the end...and on the bottom line...:)

"What can we do about this as individuals? My answer is to take the responsibility and be an educated consumer, and don't patron places with poor customer service; very much like people's experiences above."

That's my M/O.

Paula - Holiday World is often discussed in the same breath as excellent customer service. I know many of us here have experienced it first-hand. Would you be willing to discuss how the park instills that in your employees? Especially the teens who so often get a bad rap when it comes to their job attitude.

Thanks ;)

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Mamoosh said: Paula - Holiday World is often discussed in the same breath as excellent customer service. I know many of us here have experienced it first-hand. Would you be willing to discuss how the park instills that in your employees?

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In two words? Regular beatings. :)

Paula (if you have any questions...ask away...)

ROFL Paula! ;)

Yep,

I had a great trip to Holiday World/Splashin Safari this past weekend. On both Sunday/Monday, the lines on all the rides were at most 45 minutes long.

While I admit, I've gone to the Six Flags St. Louis park almost once a year for all my life, I haven't once had a major problem or feel that I got my money's worth. Of course, you always have the typical few rides that aren't operating.

For example, I went to Six Flags St. Louis last year on Labor Day. It rained all day. There were probably less than 100 guests in the entire park because I remember I rode all the coasters there.. all by myself on several occasions. But, they had the park completely staffed and all the rides were going. They did end up closing the park early at 3 pm, but I left at 1 pm anyhow because I had so many rides on everything I got bored.

However, it doesn't compare to Holiday World. In my opinion, Holiday World has got quite a few things going for it. There is no charge for parking, free sunscreen (very good CS to keep their guests 'healthy'), free soft drinks, and free inner tube usage. The lockers are only $3 to rent, and that is all day.

In comparison to Six Flags, parking is $8, drinks are $2.50 for a 20 ounce bottle, there is no sunscreen provided, inner tubes are about $10 with another $10 deposit, and you are charged per hour that you rent a locker.

What else Holiday World has going for it is the way their employees treat guests (of course). You walk up to a ride, and the staff will take your "loose articles" and place them over in a book shelf-type locker. All this for no charge (my trip to Busch Gardens Tampa made me pay $3 to rent a locker for the duration of one coaster ride to put my camera in; absolutely pathetic).

While I am a big coaster enthusiast and Holiday World only has two coasters, I go back because of the atmosphere and the fact that they don't nickel and dime you to death over everything. On my recent trip, this was the first time I went to the water park and it was a blast as well. The lines are a bit lengthy but that is expected when they can only let 4 people go in about a 30 second period.

Another major plus; Holiday World has banned smoking except for certain areas. I can't stand smokers (not to offend anyone) but just because they want to smoke around the park, I shouldn't be penalized for my tolerance of them. There were a few times at Holiday World that I did find a few people smoking over by the Legend or the Raven on the main walkway and none of the park employees stopped them or anything. That is something possibly to be improved on.

And lastly, Holiday World is clean. Unlike most Six Flags parks, there isn't any gang symbols and other "I love jessicas" written anywhere. They take care of all of their rides and queue lines and paint over that stuff. When you go to a Six Flags park, grafitti is everywhere; you just can't miss it. The only major place I noticed the vandalism was in line for the Raven. When you finally get to the top of the steps in the line, there is a window on the right side. People have spit their gum out on the roof and it looks intolerable.

I'm not 100% sure what Holiday World pays their employees, but I think it seems to be just about average; and possibly a little below average (in comparison to Cedar Point). But, their staff is friendly, efficient, greets you with a smile, and gives you an all-around great experience at the park. Because of this comparison, I believe it is how the company treats the employees; it is not all about how much they get paid.

Brian S.
http://www.vtdj.com

Seriously, though...this hospitality thing is part of our culture.

I think over the years we've put such an emphasis on it that folks who'd rather not smile and play nice just don't bother applying for a job here. ("Grinches need not apply.")

And you can't ask for two nicer people to work for than Will Koch and his mom, Pat. They set the example to treat everyone--Guests and fellow workers--with courtesy and respect. (Oh, and pick up trash, while you're at it. :))

We emphasize friendliness in our Orientation, Department Training, and also hold Hospitality Training for everyone in early June. Part of the Hospitality Training involves drilling...literally standing in a line and, one by one, saying something nice in the morning, nice in the afternoon, nice in the evening, compliment a child, give someone back his/her change, etc., etc. If they don't smile, make eye contact and speak clearly they have to keep trying. They quickly realize the path of least resistence is to just to give it up and smile.

I also preach that they need to go home, lock the bathroom door, and look at themselves in the mirror. Let your face hang the way it does when you're not trying to impress anyone. Ugh. Then grin, smile, beam. You really look better -- everyone looks better. I hope that vanity will take over at this point. (Try it -- you'll agree!)

Our Hospitality Training really works for most...including teens. So many "come out of their shells" over the weeks, it's really nice to see.

Plus we tell stories and read Comment Cards. Stories like the family who visited us a few summers ago and had a blast. We heard later that the dad was diagnosed with brain cancer that fall and didn't make it to Christmas.

We hosted their last family vacation. (You can hear a pin drop at this point.)

Then I ask, "What if you'd been the one rude person -- the one person who didn't care? What if you'd caused them to have a rotten experience?"

Gives me chills just to write it.

Anyway, that's how we go about it. It helps to have lovely, rural folk to choose from each year--sometimes a little shy, but usually quite caring and with a strong work ethic.

And when all that doesn't work, please refer to my earlier post. :)

Paula

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It helps to have lovely, rural folk to choose from each year--sometimes a little shy, but usually quite caring and with a strong work ethic.

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And that, I believe is the key. Without those folks, the rest would often be in vain.

You guys are lucky enough to have a stong pool of "employee B's" (referring to my earlier post) to choose from.

I think that the SF corporation might be fianlly "getting" that the biggest isn't always the best.

This was the first year in a long time that I actually enjoyed myself at Frontier City. Each year I take my son and some friends to White Water and Frontier City (Two parks for $20 bucks per person with QT coupons - Tulsa area residents only) to celebrate his birthday.

Only two rides were not open this year (Nightmare Mine and Tomahawk) at all during the day. Of all the years we have been going the following never opened while we were at the park - Terrible Twister, Round Up, Hangman, Casino, Mindbender, and Nightmare - last year in addition to the above mentioned rides the Silver Bullet was also closed.

All the employees were plesant - except for one (the bad apple in the bunch). The people at the games let us play without paying (of course we couldn't win any prizes). The kids did win 4 basketballs, but the 5th kid missed on his last shot - but the attendent gave him a basketball anyway. They were out of ketchup -so they gave us cheese for our fries free! We could tell the attendents how long we wanted to ride, or if we wanted off, etc.

We had a blast that day - I even look forward on returning sometime this year (something I dreaded doing even once a year before). Did they build anything new - no. It was customer service that made the difference for me and my bunch.