Creation of the JoJo Roll

Wouldn't the clearance be the same whether the passengers are inverted or not? I would think that the track, train and passengers would still occupy the same amount of space.

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wahoo skipper Said:
Dorney Park donates to charity the money collected by staff that is TURNED OVER to the park. But, if you think all the loose change is turned over to the park then I have some land here in the Florida Everglades I'd like to sell you.

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Well, I hope you have the deed..

1. "Staff" generally aren't allowed into the restricted areas that would be needed in order to pocket the money. For example, I know that the fountain in front of Hang Time is off-limits to anyone other than supervision, as is the area under the wild mouse, skyscraper, and most non-ride based restricted areas. Also, there's a process known as "lock-out-tag-out" which is required for anyone going into the Talon restricted areas (I'd assume Hydra would be similar) which essentially bars the unscrupulous newbies from getting back there. A friend of mine worked on the Talon ride crew in 2003, and he said that there were only 3 other operators besides the two supervisors trained on lock-out-tag-out (minors, who would be the most likely to steal, weren't even allowed to be trained on it for safety reasons)

2. Most employees are more honest then you think, and it's actually rare for anyone NOT to turn the money in unless they're relatively new and don't know about the charity fund... well, in rides anyway... The extent of the problems are more in employees who forget lunch money and then find money and decide to "borrow" it, and then just turn in the same amount after payday. (I haven't done this myself, but have known friends who have).

3. $5,500 is a lot of money which makes it highly unlikely for people to be pocketing a significant amount.

Do I think everything gets turned in? No, not 100%, but darn close to it.

We're all familiar with lock-out procedures. If they operate anything like Cedar Point, locking out the ride and walking those areas is something seasonals do every day.

Dannerman, you make it seem as if this "lock-out-tag-out" procedure is due to stealing of loose change. Ummmm...Dude, it's all about SAFETY; Keeping employees and guests from entering the low zones durring opperation of the ride :) ( notice the smiley)

I don't care WHAT the inversion is called, it's about time someone did this. Gimmick or whatever, it's still cool to me. Even without the Jojo Roll, this ride looks amazing...

...EXCEPT for that small first drop. I'll make up my mind after a ride or Two if that drop is too small.

*** Edited 12/28/2004 6:08:45 AM UTC by dexter***

Hi everybody,

Just have a few things to add to this discussion. first, to clarify the "gimmick" debate, i looked up the word in the dictionary (dictionary.com) and got:

1. A device employed to cheat, deceive, or trick, especially a mechanism for the secret and dishonest control of gambling apparatus. (JoJo is obviously not that at all) 2. An innovative or unusual mechanical contrivance; a gadget. (JoJo is DEFINITELY that) 3. An innovative stratagem or scheme employed especially to promote a project: an advertising gimmick. (JoJo is certainly innovative, and of course it was built to promote the project! Definitely no negative connotation in the definition, either) 4. A significant feature that is obscured, misrepresented, or not readily evident; a catch. (again, doesn't apply at all)

The point i'm trying to make is that even if it IS a gimmick, it shouldn't be looked at so negatively. does every coaster that does something new or different meet with such scrutiny? i don't think so. for every coaster that builds a higher or steeper drop, has a new type or variation of inversion, the highest degree of turn banking, etc., do we have such a negative perspective? i, for one, am really excited to ride this coaster, as i am interested in a new experience and think it looks like it will be a lot of fun. i'm also happy that we're getting new things besides just a faster and higher ride. i love the rockets and all that as much as the next person, but i'm glad to see some other innovative and creative elements/layouts. yes, the drop is short, but it's very steep, and i don't necessarily need it to be giant to get a lot of kick out of it or make the ride a winner.

I apologize if i've made anyone mad, and i'm really not trying to fight, i just wanted to give my two cents on this. i think it looks like a great new coaster and i can't wait to ride it!

-danny *** Edited 12/28/2004 7:21:42 AM UTC by DannyThompson*** *** Edited 12/28/2004 7:22:06 AM UTC by DannyThompson***

http://www.dorneypark.com/_upload/images/galleries/images/construction_112204B.jpg

See ? It's just a very nice layout...they could have made a drop out of the station, to have enough clearance, but instead they put a heartline roll there. An inexpensive way to add another inversion.

If you want to believe that $5,500 dollars is a lot of money, and that the staff doesn't pocket the loose change....I won't stop you from doing so.

But, I know enough to know that on most coasters, the majority of loose change will be found somewhere in the train.

Now, I am sure Dorney collects money in fountains too and my guess is that most, if not all, of that money gets turned in. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of the money donated was, in fact, from fountains.

I remember riding in the front car of the Phoenix and seeing a quarter, i never got it but it was fun seeing it bounce all over the place!

I seem to remember lots of change in the nets in Talons mid-course helix area.

Do they collect the change in the creek that runs though Dorney Park?

First, I wasn't saying lockout-tagout was to prevent stealing of loose change - I know it's solely for safety. My point is that, at least in 2003 when my friend was on the ride crew, there were only 5 people properly trained on that, 2 of which were supervisors. And for the record, I believe most supervisors are considered "seasonals". It's possible that things changed for 2004, but at least in 2003 it wasn't something that you just sent a random worker to do - there were specific people who were supposed to do it.

Most change found in the roller coaster trains? Yeah, I'm sure there's a LOT of employees riding in the trains during the day so that it's not guests that are picking that up.

And lastly, wahoo skipper, I can't speak for other parks, but I've known plenty of ride operators to know for a FACT that most money gets turned in (at least within rides) - including more sizable bills (like $20s and $50s.. haven't heard of any $100s, but that doesn't mean that any were pocketed either).

Let me clarify some of my points:
- Dorney did not design the JoJo to make money
- Any money from the JoJo will fall on the ground in a restricted area, where authorized personnel will pick it up and turn it in.
- Contrary to popular belief, the authorized personnel in question almost always turn it in, even if it's a sizable amount (even if that amount is delayed due to borrowing for lunch money)
- $5500 from loose change IS, indeed, a lot of money since it is coming from loose change found around the park. For those of you mathematically challenged, Dorney had 126 operating days in 2003, which means there was an average of $42.65 per day (rounding to the even cent). That's including slow days when there weren't many people in the park to lose money. How many times have you gone to an amusement park and found $42.65?

I found a twenty at IOA once. :)

Even if you count that $300 in an amusement park, how much would your AVERAGE per visit be? ;)

I, too, have found multiple $20s, and one $50 (and yes, while I was employed, I turned them all in - even the $50). But most of the time when I'm at an amusement park I find less than $1, mostly in pennies.

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Hydra:TheRevenge said:
Do they collect the change in the creek that runs though Dorney Park?

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PADEP would probably require a stream encroachment permit, an endangered species study, a wetlands mitigation plan, and a floodplain analysis before they let anyone do more than look at that stream from a distance closer than 50 feet.

Stream Encroachment Permit, maybe.. but highly doubtful on the other stuff. After all, what about picking up garbage that people throw in from the bridges? Also, the midways get far closer than 50 feet. Perhaps 20 feet, if not closer (not counting the bridges themselves).

I was being facetious. But since I deal with them on a regular basis, I know what hoops people have to jump through to get a construction project approved in PA. And I didn't even mention the Historical and Museum Commission review-- all those archaeological artifacts, you know.

For example, I heard that they had to come up with these funky supports for Great Bear in HP because DEP wouldn't allow any kind of construction (foundations, piers, etc.) in the stream there.

My dad lost his wallet on wipeout at SFFT. They had to freze the ride up in midair or something to get it out. So if they couldnt get it out that would have been about a lot of money. and ive seen 40 dollars fly out of someones pocket on Der Twister. You go upside down and then bam coins and bills stop flying. I caught 5 cents. And a dime hit me in the head.

It wasn't that the DEP wouldn't allow it, but that they had problems and delays in getting the permits. From what I heard (and could be wrong) they chose to build wacky supports and avoid building in the stream instead of waiting possibly years for the approval.

It's also the reason that Dorney no longer has the small lake/pond where Revolution now stands (next to Steel Force). During the construction, they accidently broke a retaining wall of some kind (don't know specifics) and in order to re-build what had already existed, they would have had to do environmental impact studies, etc. So, they chose to leave it as a swamp for a couple years until filling it in. I don't know the accuracy of this rumor, but I remember it floating around the park back in '97 when SF was new.

Last April I was at Universal in Florida and found $50, I kept it....

Yeah, but you weren't a park employee at the time, were you?

dannerman-

Nope... But what does Universal do with their found money?

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dannerman said:
It wasn't that the DEP wouldn't allow it, but that they had problems and delays in getting the permits. From what I heard (and could be wrong) they chose to build wacky supports and avoid building in the stream instead of waiting possibly years for the approval.

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I deal with DEP on a regular basis as part of my job, so I'm well aware of what it takes to get any kind of permit from them. In my opinion, them saying "you could do that, but it will take years of delays, additional studies, multiple revisions and resubmissions before we'll give you a permit" is the same as saying "we won't let you do that." Not to mention that in the meantime, they change the regs several times, giving you even more hoops to jump through.

What park has 3-4 additional years to screw around like that? Look at parks in other states and how they manage to construct rides with piers and supports in streams, ponds, lakes, etc. Somehow they were able to build without causing an environmental catastrophe, and it didn't take years of studies and piles of paperwork.

At least DEP is upfront about saying that a project's economic issues are of no concern to them. In other words, they could care less about how much time and money you'll spend till they're satisifed all the 'i's are dotted with the proper diameter and the 't's are crossed to the proper length. I just get to explain that to clients over and over. Hmmm, do I sound like I have an axe to grind?