Court wants Disneyland to justify Segway ban with study

LostKause said:

Why would riding a Segway be easier for a disable person than riding a scooter? If you can't walk around the park all day, what makes standing on and operating a Segway a better option? I just don't get it.

I had a guest a couple years ago who rode a Segway. He had a disability pass from the park as well. He was a veteran who had lost at least part of one leg (I can't really remember the details at this point, just that he was whole above the waist). The Segway was provided to him free of charge. I believe it was through a charity whose goal was to match wounded vets with Segways, but my memory is foggy. The point is, at least a few people seem to think the Segway is beneficial for disabled people.

As for the 9th Circuit, I heard a Constitutional scholar say once that the impression he gets while reading their opinions is that they are daring the Supreme Court to overrule them.

LostKause said:

Why would riding a Segway be easier for a disable person than riding a scooter? If you can't walk around the park all day, what makes standing on and operating a Segway a better option? I just don't get it.

From the decision:

[Baughman] claims that she has difficulty standing up from a seated position, so the Segway—which allows her to remain standing—makes it easier for her to visit Disneyland’s many attractions, concessions and facilities. She also claims that using a Segway allows her to be at eye-level with other guests and staff, rather than having everyone look down at her. Disney doesn’t dispute Baughman’s claim that using a motorized wheelchair or scooter would require her to stand and sit many times during her visit, or that doing so would be painful for her. Nor does Disney dispute that Baughman would feel more comfortable and dignified using a Segway.

Jeff said:

That doesn't matter at all. ADA requires they make reasonable accommodations, and I agree with it. That said, this isn't reasonable.

I knew you would point out that part of the flaw in my argument, and I agree that I don't think Segways are reasonable under that law (I just didn't want to mention it because I thought it would distract from the point I was making).

I question aspects of the law to begin with. Like so much legislation, it's beginning to be stretched way beyond its original intentions thanks to vague words like "reasonable."

Everytime some new thing is declared to be "reasonable," a new group forms to advocate that what they want should also be regarded as "reasonable." Slippery slope, you know?

Ensign Smith said:

^^What's the point of the video? I kept waiting for the part where an out-of-control segway plows through those masses of people, but it never happened.

Now I'm bummed.

Sorry, it was simpler than that, where exactly is the Segway supposed to go? Anyone who has seen Main Street USA after fireworks or a parade will understand that it may as well be an 18 wheel semi tractor trailer truck. If there was a reasonable way to do it, of course it should be done, but aside from building Segway-only lanes I struggle to see how.

If everyone had a Segway in that video, they all would either get out faster, or not get out at all. lol

What do people in motorized wheelchairs/scooters or pushing double strollers do after fireworks or a parade?

They proceed to use said vehicles as plows. I have been rammed many times by someone on an ECV, not to mention the SUV sized strollers that are a favorite of the annual pass holders out here. I try to avoid being caught in the blowoff after the fireworks there at all costs, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

I'm still not sure I see that much of a difference between the dangers posed by a Segway and those posed by a traditional motorized wheelchair or scooter. Both are going to hurt if you get rammed by them. The Segways may be slightly faster, but I'll bet they're also lighter weight. I doubt anyone here could dispute there are plenty of people in the scooters who have no business operating them in a busy area, but they are allowed to.

If anything, I'd argue the scooters/wheelchairs could be more dangerous, as any yokel can walk into a park and rent one, regardless of whether or not they have any idea how to operate it (or any real need to use it, but that's another story). At least with the Segways, assuming the park isn't renting them out, there's reasonable assurance that the person using it at least has some clue how to operate it. That assurance doesn't exist with the other devices.

I would expect the odds of falling off of or tipping over a wheelchair are pretty low by comparison.

Segways aren't just "slightly faster." They top out at 12.5 mph. For non-serious riders, that's a pretty typical average speed on a bicycle over flat terrain. You don't want that speed available in a crowd.

Can anyone restrict the speed of a Segway like Disney has done to theirs?

The court noted in its decisions that Disney could restrict the speed of Segways to that of motorized wheelchairs.

This has been stuck in my brain since this thread first appeared - but it was difficult to "family-friendly" the concept given the nature of the artist. So...here's the best I could do without overstepping the line...name the artist:

"The haters hate me, I pass them by

I'm rollin' rollin', on my Segway

The haters hate me, I say goodbye

I'm rollin' rollin', rollin', rollin..."

Segways use different "keys" to govern the speed. Disney only gives out the slower speed keys for their tours, which are mostly around the lagoon at Epcot before that half of the park opens.

A quick Google search reveals that the top speed for many of the power chairs tops out between 5-8 MPH depending on the type/brand. I still contend I'd rather be hit by a Segway going 12 MPH than a scooter going 8.

Although if the Segways have a key that limits the speed, and assuming that key is supplied when you purchase the thing, why not just require people to use that while in Disney parks? Seems like a win for both parties.

I think you need to get on a Segway.

CP Chris said:

why not just require people to use that while in Disney parks? Seems like a win for both parties.

How do you ensure the key is used throughout the day?

Give Mickey and friends radar guns?

Did Disney not employ a rental fleet of stand-up vehicles back when the Segway first became available and Disney opted not to allow them? I seem to remember that at the time they claimed that they would make available an approved substitute vehicle...presumably something that is not self-balancing and is speed limited, if nothing else. I could see something the size of a Segway being a lot easier to maneuver in a crowd, and as one with occasional knee problems I can understand how a stand-up vehicle might be a better choice for some people than a wheelchair (although in my case I'm better off walking than standing...). But the Segway, specifically, and particularly Segways owned by their users, have mechanical capabilities and design issues (open wheels, for instance) that are not well suited to a crowded amusement park...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.