Couch on LeSourdsville Lake: "It hurts me"

Cheese anyone?

Big Kirby: As a business man, you would sink a large amount of capital onto the park that has been closed since 2002? Do rehab, hire staf, spend marketing dollars on something that has proven to be a loss in the past?

Oh wait, I know. "I would buy 300ft. dueling flyers with 15 inversions"

Heaven forbid Rob look at more than *just* the dollars and cents. Oh, wait. He doesn't have any concept of the money side because he's an enthuiass.

"Boo freakin' hoo" yourself.

Business - A commercial enterprise or establishment

Chairty - a gift for humanitarian, philanthropic, or other purposes beneficial to the public

Industry - A specific branch of manufacture and trade (Synonym: Business)

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Just wanted to point out that we generally discuss the amusement industry around here.

What is the amusement industry? A collection of businesses operating in the amusement field.

What is business? See the first line of this post.

I do know of one park that ran for many years on a 'charity' principal - it is located at Neverland Ranch. ;)

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You know, with all the fun and memories the amusement parks around the world offer, it is sometimes hard to remember they're businesses first and foremost. But don't think for a second that if the entire industry collapsed, that they wouldn't close left and right at an alarming pace.

Maybe instead of worrying about what could have been, it is better to enjoy what you have?

I think I do a great job of enjoying what we have, but is it wrong to look back upon what was with wishes that things could have ended up differently?

Sure, there is a lot of discussion of the amusement industry on this site but there is also a lot of discussion about amusements as a hobby. Just as certain people claim that many of us refuse to acknowledge that amusement parks are a business, those same people refuse to accept that, for some of us, amusement parks are an emotional thing. People get emotional about all sorts of things- movies, cars, golf, railroads, comic books, sports... the list goes on and on.

I guess what I'm saying is that I care more about the emotional aspect of amusements than the business aspect. I understand the business aspect but an understanding of that isn't what draws me to this hobby. I feel bad that a park with a great roller coaster is gone forever and I'll never get a chance to experience any of it. I feel regret that the recent ownership of the park didn't give it his all and refuses to sell so that someone else might take a shot at turning things around. And I feel just a little disappointment that I can't express an emotion without certain people suggesting that they are living in reality while people that feel the same as I do are nothing more than foolish dreamers.

*** This post was edited by Rob Ascough 5/25/2006 4:38:54 PM ***

The thing that sucks is, when the park re-opened in 2002, it was in better condition than it ever was. Jeff Pugh had $100,00 just put into the coaster.

The rides are solid, the "older" buildings are solid too.

What hurt them that year was the little amount of sold picnics it had.

People flocked to the park. the busines was healthy, but with poor planning it looks like he took a loss. It just could have worked. Thats all Im saying.

We went back in '02 on the night the Repub. Nat. Conven. local chapter rented out the park, and while the rides were up to par, the rest of the park wasn't. We returned a few weeks later and the same was true again.

- Lack of (trained) employees, (the lady running SE was being trained on the job. They kept having to shut down rides in half-hour increments to open others). We were seriously left on the Electric Rainbow while the operator walked away for a smoke. I laugh now, but I was queezy when I got off of it.

- There was no merchandising, (would've like to have gotten a LLAP t-shirt, esp. now!), and even harder to find an open food stand in the park.

- But the hardest part to understand was the lack of asthetic touches, (painting, landscaping, general upkeep of the establishment, ect.) to the park. And it wasn't as clean as I remember it in the past.

But I do repeat, the rides themselves were great! And that's the main purpose for going to parks...so on that note, we had a great time.

I really have a hard time blaming Mr. Couch though. The one time I met him he seemed like a very genuine guy, I really just believe he got in way over his head with the park. He spent 2.5 million just to get the park, and open it in the condition it was in. There's no telling how much more money it would've taken to get it up to truly excellent condition. And with the park's future uncertain pertaining to it's success, even I'd be really apprehensive to dump a bunch more cash into it.

It's really sad, I grew up in that park, and like many others Screechin' Eagle and The Serpent were my first wooden & steel coasters. But it's the end of an era, sorry to say.*** This post was edited by Floorless Fan 5/25/2006 5:31:25 PM ***

I get both sides of this. I really wish I would have made the trip there in 02. What I don't get is if you wanted to get out and make some cash why not put the coaster up for sale with the other rides? The longer it sits, the more rehab it's gonna need. Why not try and sell it while you might still be able to get something for it?

At the very least, he could do what Six Flags did with the Texas Cyclone and give away the permanaent structures to anyone willing to remove them. Worst case, there are no takers and Couch is left with land he can't use unless he hires someone to demolish what's on it. Best case, he ends up with usable land and someone else spends the money to make it that way.

If he's planning on keeping some of the amusements to boost camping at his site, he ought to look into Dogwood Lake's experience in Kentucky. I think they removed their amusement rides a couple of years ago after that experiment didn't pan out.

Jeff said:

"The business failed. That's life. Every time these debates come up it's as if enthusiasts have no concept of money. The park closing for good is sad, but being sad has nothing to do with having a sustainable business."

Just because the park wasn't successful for one season doesn't mean that it isn't a profitable endeavor.

Maybe he chose the wrong company to manage the park, possibly he didn't market the park to the right target audience to gain company picnics, etc., or maybe he just tried to open to quickly. There are a whole plethora of reasons as to why he lost money his first season operating the park.

To simply state that the business is a failure is short sighted in my opinion. The park used to fill a unique nitch in the Middletown/Dayton/Cincy market.

It's too bad that Mr. Couch did not take into consideration the past success that the park has experienced, the nostalgic memories that many adults hold for the park, or the fact that maybe his style of leadership was simply not adequate.

I seriously doubt that Mr. Couch truly exhausted all of his options.

What a shame.

Is the guy allowed to put his money into a business he thinks will succeed? Or are we to believe that he has some ethical responsibility to sell the park at a loss, or less than he could make in the RV business so as to appease the most extreme and irrational of coaster enthusiasts among us?

I love picnic parks and the Eagle as much as any enthusiast and am sickened by the thought of the permanent demise of this park and many more. However, he owns the land and has the right to do with it as he sees appropriate. Who are we to determine the amusement park is more important than RV sales? In my opinion, it is rather sad and selfish that some would deem their emotional attachments to nostalgia as more important than the desires of the guy who actually took the time, effort, and money to feed the nostalgia. Sadly he failed…but at least he tried!

We must keep in mind that Americana was closed before he came along! He gave us one more season. Where were all these so-called buyers before he stepped up and made an attempt? To now get called to the carpet by the same type of people he made an effort to serve seems WRONG. In fact I applaud Mr. Couch for making an effort when nobody else would.

How some people can allow their personal, and dare I say selfish, desires to lead to the anger (apparent?) seen on this thread is something I do not understand. The fact is that nobody on this thread knows this guy. We know nothing about the struggles he has made in coming to a decision. Even if he secretly wanted the park closed (which is absurd based upon the timeline) does not make him a bad person. I suspect there might be some happy RVers out here today. In fact they are beaming over at RVbuzz,com with the good news. It is called perspective…I would hope some of you can get some as it pertains to this subject. Your/our small hobby/interest is not that important in the grand scheme of things. Specifically it is not important enough to expect fair minded individuals to support personal insults on another human being who made a perfectly legal and logical choice about what to do with a piece of property he owns…

As someone who knows this particular owner, the 2002 season did him in on reopening the park ever again. Pugh left him with the bills at the end of the season, which he did pay. This included about a month of salaries for the staff. I do know of one firm in Florida that did aproach him in 2003 about managing the park, but he was not at all interested.

Holy crap, I think I agree with Smith for a change. It's a crazy world I tell ya!

Johnathan: I'm pretty sure that taking a half-million hit constitutes being not profitable by definition.

I get nostalgia. Trust me, with the crap I'm going through in my personal life right now, I'm sure that I qualify as one of the most reflective and nostalgic people I know. But as Gonch says, I choose to put my energy into remembering the good times that I've had instead of worrying about the inevitable wheel of progress. I'll be dead some day, and while I can be sad for awhile, I can't justify spending a ton of energy on things I can't change.

Patrick, I would have
a. not purchased the park in the first place unless I had the capital to run it for more than one season
b. operated it internally in 2002 rather than get scammed by Pugh Shows (common sense would say don't choose a failed businessman to run your business)
c. allowed one of these groups offering to operate the park the chance to do itHe could have built upon the 2002 reopening and should have reopened in 2003.

He may have taken another, smaller loss that season, but how much of the half million dollars was due to the park sitting idle, which would not have been the case in 2003?

Just because you take a loss one year does not mean your business won't be profitable. I have lost money for multiple years before making a profit.

If he purchased the park for the land and wanted to test the waters if it were profitable, he got a bad taste of the action by his choice of operators. He felt safer with his camper business which is understandable, but I believe he never really tried to make a go of the park. $500k is not as much money as people think.

With gas hovering around $3.00 a gallon, I know an RV is my next vehicle of choice. (...waiting for those with nothing else to do to post innumerable statistics attempting to prove my opinion is wrong.)

From RV.net:

"It is estimated that 9 million people will travel throughout North America in their RVs this year to enjoy the freedom and independence RV travel brings. It is a way to truly explore and enjoy “America the Beautiful” at one’s own pace. It is estimated that in the next 10 years, the number of RV-owning households will increase by 15% from 9 million to 10.4 million.

Today, the RV industry is stronger than ever. Positive demographic and economic trends are producing record sales. The market for the RV industry is also growing as the Baby Boomers approach retirement age, younger owners enter the market place and life expectancy continues to extend. The safety RV travel brings is also a positive factor among the fears of nationwide travel that exist today."

I aim to please. :)

That's from 2003 though, but if there's one market that would seem impervious to gas hikes, it'd be a market where people spend $50,000, $100,000, $150,000 or more on a recreational vehicle. Those are the folks who certainly can afford the gas.

More on topic, JRS nailed it very nicely.

*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar 5/26/2006 12:07:33 AM ***

Just a quick thought, it's late and I need to get to bed...

The park DID not succeed under Pugh (?). Does that really mean that the park COULD not succeed under better management?

It's Couch's business and I have no problem grasping that....but I do have to wonder if he "gave up" on the amusement biz after the one failed attempt...

exactly my point rollergator.

how can we say a business is a failure when an RV salesman buys a park, attempts to run it for a season, and loses some cash. the business was not necessarily a failure, Mr. Couch's attempt to successfully run the business was a failure.

Return on investment. R.O.I.It would cost him (X) amount of dollars to open the park back up and run it. The park would bring in an amount of money (Y) (based on market research and past numbers).If X > Y, then there is no reason to open the park (unless you really like roller coasters and want to loose lots of money.In a situation like this, an independent firm is usually hired to investigate the return on investment possibilities of opening the park back up. This is a business man who has had plenty of success. I don't think it was a whim. Those of you who are saying "he could have done this or that and made money", well frankly you don't know that. I think he did.
*** This post was edited by Patrick K 5/26/2006 9:32:44 AM ***

I'll back you up, Gonch. I just saw on Headline News a few minutes ago that RV sales are reaching record levels right now, despite gas prices. The analysts can't explain it.

Couch is going where the money is. Crazy bastard.

Maybe the guy's afraid he'd end up like Conneaut lake, going further and further into debt every year. If that's the case, i can't blame him.
RV sales in Ohio have increased in the past twelve months regardless of the cost of gas.