Cost factor of replacing Over the Shoulder Restrai

Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:51 AM
Does anyone know the approximate cost of replacing horsecollars with either a lap bar or butterfly restraint?

It seems to me that parks would alleviate 90% of complaints about coasters by replacing them, however, I don't know the cost factor?

Anyone have any help?
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:38 AM
Cost isn't the only problem...

In most cases, significant reengineering would be required. The exception to that rule is the Schwarzkopf loopers.

So unless the manufacturer (or someone else willing to assume the liability) develops a retrofit kit, the chances of it happening are pretty much -nil- on most rides.

The good news is that there are now some demonstrations out there to indicate that YES it can be done, and it can be done safely.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:45 AM
What exactly do you mean, "reengineering"?

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CDNSN
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:52 AM
Think about a typical looping coaster train, say, for instance, an Arrow multi-element car.

Where are you going to attach a lap bar in such a way that the attachment can withstand several thousand pounds of force? How do you get enough clearance for it to work? The questions are not impossible to answer, but those and others have to be answered, and the calculations have to be done to make sure that the resulting system is actually safe and effective. The parts have to be manufactured. It's easy to look at the car and say, "Okay, so you attach here, and come down like so, and you're golden." That's the creative part. It's also the easy part. Once that's done, it becomes an engineering problem to design the retrofit and make it work.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:55 AM
Maybe I am naive about this all, but "re-engineering" brings to mind issues like the effects on the rider. I'm admitting that I may not have much technical knowledge about rollercoaster restraints, but it seems that the rider is under the same forces (positive/negative G's) regardless of what keeps them in the train. I would love to be enlightened. Many coasters with the "headbanging" stimga can be given new hope with what seems to be a inconsequencial modification.

I wonder what the cost difference would be between replacing the restraints and completely changing the trains to a more updated format? *** This post was edited by Homey G. on 7/10/2001. ***
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:33 AM
I have to say that I'm impressed with Premier Rides' FOF retrofit, and though I haven't seen it up close, the retrofit of Arrow's Steel Phantom trains by Morgan. I'm interested to see how those bars are attached to the chassis, though that might be tough with the fiberglass bodies in the way.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:33 AM

Homey G. said:
"Does anyone know the approximate cost of replacing horsecollars with either a lap bar or butterfly restraint?


What is a butterfly restraint?
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 11:42 AM
Butterfly restraint may not be the proper terminology, but picture a restraint that closes in from either side that allows much more freedom to not only the neck and head, but also arms.

Imagine a Nautilus workout machine, except you don't work out your pectoral muscles, you stay in the rollercoaster.

:oÞ
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:08 PM
I've heard the Premier rides FOF retrofit is about $500k per train. Pretty significant investment for a park considering this.
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:14 PM
Besides the cost, "they" will have the "re-engineer" the trains and system controls.

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SFGAm Trip - July 13-17, 2001
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:17 PM
Doesn't X have butterfly restraints? http://www.twistedrails.com/sfmm2k1/jun30-10.shtml

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Shut up when I'm talking to you!"- Linkin Park
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:24 PM
I haven't seen the new Phantom's Revenge trains, either (Sunday!), but I would think that proves lap bars can fit on, at least, and Arrow multi-element chassis.

However! Would PR's lap bars be sufficient for a looper? I don't think anyone's ever asked that question. Just judging by looks, my uneducated guess is no.

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Matt Lynch
Co-Webmaster, Kennywood Boulevard
http://kennywood.coasterbuzz.com
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:38 PM
In regards to Phantom's Revenge, I think a looping coaster with a lap bar probably needs the two poles coming from the floor that restrict the legs from going anywhere. With PR, riding solo would be potentially dangerous going through inversions.

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Joshua Wilcox
"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it."
Formerly the buzzer known as "SFA"
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 3:17 PM
Thank you, Rideman for clearing that up for me.

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CDNSN
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 5:41 PM
Scharzkopf has already proven that lap bars can be sufficient for loopers.

Take for example the Mindbender at SFoG, that roller coaster is over 20 years old, and although it doesn't do the same type of inversions that go on today, it handles vertical loops with ease.

Arrow should definitely look at some of their older "guys" and work with the parks to fight off that headbanger image! I mean, Arrow has already been paid for it, why not make some more money retrofitting some of their classics?
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Tuesday, July 10, 2001 7:51 PM

Lynch said:
"Would PR's lap bars be sufficient for a looper? I don't think anyone's ever asked that question. Just judging by looks, my uneducated guess is no."
I think that depends entirely on where they touch you. Given the weird design, I'm thinking it wouldn't secure like a FOF train would.

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Jeff
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"From the global village... in the age of communication!"
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Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:58 AM
Yes. That link to X's cars are exactly what I meant by butterfly restraints.

Thanks for the hyperlink!

:o)
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