Conneaut Lake attendance down 25%

Heck, it's late but I missed a message here saying that the park was open on Saturdays and Sundays only now. When I was there two years ago it was open Wednesday through Sunday. The website indicates that my 2001 operating schedule is still in place (and I assume it was that way in 2002). You had talk of the park not opening at all until just before the season started. All this and the park ONLY lost 25% of its attendance. That's not bad at all, even if 75% of what was probably a small crowd to begin with the year before isn't saying much.

Here's a scattershot guide to attempting to save CLP if anyone is so inclined to run with it:

1. Hampton Inn Save-A-Landmark Program. Contact them. The moment you do, contact the local media if only to tell them that you contacted the mighty Hampton Inn's program. They might find it newsworthy. That's how a buzz starts.

2. Write Stephen King and every other popular horror writer about the haunted angle -- the ghost of the lady that burned in the hotel fire decades ago. Ask for help in saving the hotel (and the park). Again. Contact the media to let them know that Stephen King might be interested in keeping CLP afloat.

3. Does CLP even have a summer camp program? Is Crawford County ripe with kid programs over the summer that can't be moved over to CLP? Make the connections. Be the intermediary.

4. Is Nickelodeon still doing clean-up projects over the summer? Get the kids to chip in on the paint project. Hey, fixing a coaster would be cooler than scooping littered cans from a playground sandbox. National press.

I just saw the pricing on the site. I know that my family of four paid just $6.95 a head on the Wednesday we were there two summers ago. It's $3 higher now. That's a 43% hike! Granted, I knew we were getting a huge bargain but maybe it's the prices that are keeping people away. I mean, this is one park where it's safe to say that more than 95% of its visitors live in the immediate area.

So much can be done. I'd say that the potential is there, though, let's be frank, the park is hurt by its limited acreage and its rural location. While you can argue that more can be done to win sponsorship deals (even if it's something as unsavory and unfathomable as Deer Park Plunge in SFoG or more mainstream like Pepsi Max Big One) I think the park is collapsing under its own weight because it never learned how to be the hub within its community.

Yes, I've only been there once. What do I know? Heck. I live in Miami, Florida where any park -- even Conneaut Lake Park -- would be an improvement over the amusement park nadir.

But I think the sum of the little things, be it scheduling an ACE-sanctioned event -- to even a CoasterBuzz one Jeff -- would help if Crawford County can't find a way to go to OpenIPO.com and raise money by taking the fledgling park public.

Fxnib, the Tumble Bug I can see being saved by a nearby company but it wouldn't be Cedar Fair (i.e. Kennywood could probably toss it over to Idlewild). Blue Streak? It was in pretty bad shape two years ago. It wasn't running so well either (my son's bloodied lip would attest to that). I don't know if being the 6th oldest wooden coaster running would be enough to save it considering SO much work that would need to be done. And even if it could be saved I can't see it fitting in Cedar Point at all. They have a better Blue Streak already. Mean Streak won't become firewood for the sake of CLP's coaster, that's for sure.

CLP just needs to draw in corporations who know a thing or two about running a business. The way the park has been set up with the county-run mentality doesn't work in the real world. You need real investors. You need, not just a hotel chain to acquire Hotel Conneaut, but a well-known food chain or two to spice up the midway.

Perhaps the Blue Streak could go to "PA's Hometown Park" if Conneaut closes. Afterall they saved one wooden coaster so far and made a recreation of another. I heard that they don't want a tumble bug though. Just because of the big area they take up.

Williams Grove would be the perfect candidate for rescueing alot of the rides. They appear to have lots of room to expand.

I think the Conneaut Lake area needs other things to entice people there. What else is there to do there besides go to the Park or the lake? Look at the choices within a three hour drive from the Erie area for parks. Waldameere, SFWOA, Cedar Point, and Kennywood. I just don't think the Conneaut Lake area is a tourist attraction anymore for families taking a vacation. I know if I was a kid and my parents gave me the option of picking a park to go to for a day and I lived in the area of Conneaut I'd pick Six Flags, Cedar Point or Kennywood. If Waldameer gets the new wooden coaster they wanted for the last few years it will take even more people away from Conneaut.

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Signature will be closed today. Sorry for the inconveinance.

Paris, The Blue Streak is running phenominally this year. I know what you mean by the coaster being a little rough a few years ago. The only thing wrong with that coaster now is it needs a paint job. There's a ton of new wood in it, and its running the best it ever has. The ride experience is completely different in the old train then in the NAD's.

It is an OLD coaster with a very unique track style. That's what concerns me about the ride being moved. Usually the track is cut up and hauled away while only the structure is dismanteled and moved. It seems like such a waste, even the Sreechin' Eagle was running the best it ever had right before that park closed. Both these rides are classics, and favorites to the people who ride them. Something needs to be done in both cases!!

Wood - anything else is an imitation*** This post was edited by Thrillerman 7/17/2003 3:27:46 PM ***

I think a major problem with Conneaut is that they relied so much on the company picnic business. When they went out of business for awhile, those corporate accounts went elsewhere. If they're from the north, maybe to Waldameer. From the south they probably went to Kennywood or Idlewild. What possible reason would companies have to "switch back" so to speak?

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Come on, fhqwgads!

ACE may not be able to do anything directly, but they could spread awareness. Not only could the ACE publications make members aware, but they could also use their connections to perhaps get something like the Travel channel interested. In fact, it would be really nice if the Travel channel did a show on some of the small out of the way parks instead of Cedar Point & SFMM shows over and over. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Conneaut is a very interesting place. And the hotel, despite needing some work, is really nice and unique for a park to have. This place deserves both attention and preservation.

Thank you Coasterbuf. That was exactly my point in my first post. I'm an ACE member and spread awareness about the smaller parks anytime I can. If more people-enthusiasts included- realized the fun they could have at the smaller parks instead of being blinded and brainwashed by all the glitz and glamour of the larger corporate parks, we'd all be better off. Park AND coasterwise!!!

Wood - anything else is an imitation

Wow... that sure is a stretch. So because I prefer to spend my time at Cedar Point or Six Flags I'm "brainwashed?" No, I think it has more to do with them being open all season and having coaster counts in the double digits.

You guys keep trying to make this an emotional issue, and it's not. We have a small park in the middle of nowhere with a ride some people consider a death trap and not much else. That doesn't make a compelling argument for the park. Add to that its proximity to Youngstown and Erie, areas where the economy is worse than normal, and you can see how the odds are against it.

People will be careful about where they spend their discretionary income. People require quality for those dollars. If they were getting that at Conneaut, they'd keep going there.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Luau II Cam 7/19
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

I resent your refering to the Blue Streak as a deathtrap Jeff. I don't know when the last time you were there but It sounds like you haven't been in a while. Besides...my first post wasn't directed at just you Jeff, it was directed towards ALL OF US!!

As far as spending hard earned dollars goes, Conneaut is very reasonably priced with free parking. The food is good, flats run longer than 30 seconds, and the place is charming. Add in the coaster and lake, and corporate parks fall way short.

We are brainwashed by these big megaplex parks anymore. It's reflected in all aspects of our culture. Our society is based around the corporate take over. The masses now shop, eat, and spend most of their money in corporate environments where the money ends up out of the local economy. People are even afraid to go more than 500ft from the highways they travel to get a decent meal or any other destination for that matter. Life has more to offer than that, and its a very narrow minded way to think.

The best part of the trip to Conneaut for me is when I get off of the highway (I-76) and take Route 5 through Warren and through small towns like Kinsman and Cortland. Thats when you'll see the effect of corporate take-overs. But if you never get off the highway, you'd never see it, or know it!!

Thrillerman,

Then how do you explain Kennywood and other small parks doing well?

Kennywood is not a short drive off the expressway - in fact, the traffic getting there on the side streets rivaled any Chicago traffic jam...

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--George H
---Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)

Now I'm brainwashed and narrowminded. Must... resist... call of corporate parks...

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Luau II Cam 7/19
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

There are some exceptions to the rule but I wouldn't use Kennywood as an example. They own three other parks. They are also now officially owned by Kennywood Corp. Don't get me wrong, I love Kennywood and look forward to every visit there. They have been more careful about how they've handled themselves. Knoebel's, Camden, and William's Grove are the exceptions to my rule that come to mind. But those are only three exceptions compared to all the parks that have been taken over by, or closed, because of corporate parks.

Look at what Walmart does, then you'll begin to understand the dilema!!!

Wood - anything else is an imitation

"They have been more careful about how they've handled themselves. "

You answered your own question! If a park doesn't take care of themselves well, they will suffer - which unfortunately, will cause a park to lose business and either go out of business or be gobbled up by a larger chain.

It's the same for all types of businesses, not just amusement parks.

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--George H
---Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)

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The masses now shop, eat, and spend most of their money in corporate environments

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As opposed to what? Growing my own corn in my backyard then knitting a sweater from the husks?

And Kennywood is now officially owned by Kennywood Corp.? So? They were never bought out. The same family owns them. It all of a sudden makes them bad because some "enthusiast" just found out that on legal documents they include the word "corporation?" EVERY park is incorporated. EVERY business is corporate.

People don't go to big parks because they've never heard of Conneaut. They go because there's more to do. Stop thinking like an enthusiast for a second.

If there were a theater showing just "Ace Ventura" all day every day, would you keep going back, or would you go to the screens down the street that have six new shows every week?

The general public wants entertained. Big parks entertain people. That's how they became big parks.

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Come on, fhqwgads
!

Absolutely, but do you think Kennywood would survive if a larger park with more rides and bigger coasters was built on the other side of the river? Where would they get the money? How would they compete with a smaller budget? We have all been led by the nose as a society to think that bigger is better. In contrast we are undermining the subtle things in life that we all get pleasure from.

Whenever I drive to Conneaut, there is a small town where CVS built a huge drugstore right across the street from a family owned business. Well actually, the small business was there for less then a year after its new neighbor. So what do you think happened to the owners of that business and their families? Mind you...this is a small rural town surrounded by farmland. It's not a pretty picture when you think about the logistics. That business was probably there for years. What business did a major corporation have in building in a small town like that? Tax write-off for when they too decided to close too because of not enough business to sustain such a large store? The rich get richer pretty fast don't they?

The next time you go out to eat at a major chain restaurant or shopping at one of the huge 'box' stores that litter our landscape, think about the small businesses you just passed on the highway when you put your money on the counter. It's going to pad some rich corporations bank account and not back into the local economies. What these companies say they contribute, is chump change compared to what they actually take away.

I'm not saying to never go to the theme parks at all, I'm talking about spreading the wealth some. Don't just go to Cedar Point, Six Flags,or Paramount. That is being narrow minded. Too many of us do that already! Make it a point to visit the smaller parks. You just might learn/discover something special.

Wood - anything else is an imitation

You miss MY point Thrillerman, If a park isn't taking care of themselves, whether it's park upkeep, adding new things or even lack of advertising, people will not come.

Also, if you don't like the Kennywood comparison...How about Indiana Beach. They are what, 20 miles off of I-65? They still have plenty of people entering the gates there in the middle of nowhere!!

Outside of enthusiast circles, how many people are even aware of CL? I think I am very safe in saying NOT MANY.

You can say "build it and they will come" until the cows come home, but until people FIND OUT about the park, feel safe riding the rides, enjoy their time at the park, and feel safe in the general area, people won't be there to support the park.

NOTE: These comments are not precisely directed at CL, as I have never been there and I don't know the area.

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--George H
---Currency tracking experiment... http://www.wheresgeorge.com (Referring to The "George" on the $1 bill - Not Me)

*** This post was edited by redman822 7/18/2003 1:23:43 PM ***

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Look at what Walmart does, then you'll begin to understand the dilema!!!

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What am I missing here? Walmart uses its size to execute one of the best supply chains in the world and in combination with that pressures vendors to deliver goods at reasonable prices. You know where that gets me? Better prices, saving me money so I can buy other stuff. I'm a consumer, I don't care which business I go to as long as I get what's best for me. I'm not a charity. Bring on that new Outback Steakhouse to my home town, because the family owned place down the street has mediocre food for above average prices (and been cited by the health department).

This notion that corporate America is bad is ridiculous. If Conneaut was run like Holiday World, we'd all go there every year by the hundreds. It's not, so we don't.

Business is business... whether it be family run or corporate. You either do it well or you don't.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com - Luau II Cam 7/19
DELETED! What time does the water show start?

Conneaut Lake Preservation Society http://home.neo.rr.com/city/marathon/index.html, in case anyone's interested.

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~*Grab the brass ring!*~

Jeff said:

"You guys keep trying to make this an emotional issue, and it's not."

It's not? Perhaps not to you, because you just don't seem to care. But when I went there for the first time a few years ago, I had heard the horror stories and was expecting the worst. Instead, I found a wonderful little park in a beautiful location. With an old hotel that had a wonderful feel to it (despite the lack of AC and other things people usually expect). It was truely different than any other park I had ever been too (in a good way) and I still feel that way even now.

Jeff, I just don't get why you dismiss other people's feelings on things. At what point does something become emotional to you? Have you not been fond of any park during your travels? Sure, CLP doesn't have a ton of rides, but there's something to be said for spending a relaxing day in a park, just soaking up the atmosphere instead of running around trying to get 16 coasters added to your count.

There's a lot of places that I consider special to me, from Disneyland to Kennywood, from BGW to Holiday World and from Indiana Beach to yes, even places like Waldemer and Conneaut Lake. I would be upset if any of them closed. And I don't understand why any coaster or park enthusiast would not feel the same.

I have to agree with Thrillerman and Coasterbuf here. It is an emotional issue. How can you not detach emotions from a visit to an amusement park? You go there for good times and a chance to forget your personal problems. People form special bonds with places and things that make them feel good.

There is a place for the giant theme parks, as some people form a special bond with them as strong as those who enjoy the smaller, older facilities. It's not fair to say that one person's place is less special because it doesn't generate as much money as somebody else's. I prefer a nature documentary on PBS to a network sitcom. Is the sitcom better because it makes more money?

How sad a world it would be if the only things we had were what the mega-corporations decided we should have. I, for one, am glad that there are still some places where every ride is not tied to a cartoon or a video game, and where it isn't just a big commercial for some tired movie franchise.

When you buy things, it's politics; you're buying a belief, and the corporate world wouldn't have it any other way. You're making a statement that says that you approve or disapprove of what the manufacturer of the product does or doesn't do, as well as what the retailer does or doesn't do. All purchases give the corporation a right to proclaim: "This is what the people want." When, in reality, the corporations (at least in part) create a "want." Advertising is designed to make people believe they need something. To say that the company is just giving people what they want is silly. We are conditioned in this culture to want the biggest and the fastest. Things that go against this are often portrayed as inferior. The media plays a big role in what we think and believe.

Wal-Marts and chain restaurants are not fair competitors. The independent businesses don't always fail because they "aren't good enough," but because of public perception that the new store is better and because of market forces that are designed to give the chains an edge in the business world. Once you finally get the courage to stop spending at Wal-Mart or to try eating at that little restaurant downtown instead of the behemoth at the interchange, you may see that there is a whole other world out there.

Amusement Parks like Conneaut Lake are important to preserve for their historical significance alone. Do we really want to live in a world where the only roller coasters are named after superheros, where $10 parking charges are the norm, and a relaxing day walking along the lakefront while eating an ice cream cone is relegated to some quaint moment in the past that has no place in today's society?

-Joe, Who thinks that Top Thrill Dragster is not a compelling reason to visit Cedar Point. :)

Edit: Where did my screenname go? -- millrace
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Ripple Rock Amusement Park
*** This post was edited by 7/19/2003 9:55:08 AM ***