compare and contrast flyers
Not droves as in massive amounts but still plenty. Aren't their more SLC's out there then B and M Inverts?
If another vekoma flyer is built I do however think it will not be in the states. Europe seems fit for such a creation.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
Yes Virginia, I am Santa Claus!
I AM WITTY!
ROFL....yes, *droves* would require a more substantial price difference IMO. With the Vekomas running *pretty close* in price to the Beemers, I think *my park* would find a way to save some money elsewhere, and pick up a Talon clone over an SLC....
As for the flyers, comfort, capacity, reliability....the demand for the Vekomas probably will not return. The three that are out there most likely are all that there will be...The Vekoma layout is certainly more interesting with a variety of elements, and I'd love to see B&M make one like that....but it's not likely. I'm OK with that, because this particular *flavor of the month* is not my personal cup of tea....
bill, must be getting hungry...;)
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www.coasterimage.com
*** This post was edited by Lord Gonchar on 12/19/2002. ***
I agree with you 100 percent Lord Gonchar. I was just trying to point out that I wouldn't rule out a Dutchman elsewhere. If companies that made inferior products all dropped off the face of the earth we woudn't have Chrysler after all ;) SLC's are still a viable product even though there price is about the same as a B and M and the operation and quality of it is far worse.
All kidding aside, I believe another Dutchman will be built but definitely not in the US.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
Yes Virginia, I am Santa Claus!
I AM WITTY!
*** This post was edited by Monto58 on 12/19/2002. ***
Vekoma's rule!
Thats two words.
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Charles Nungester.
Is it about coasters or friends? I say both!
I might as well chime in...
Done three Vekoma's and two B&M's and my report? B&M's rule over their inferior Netherland counterparts. Reasoning?
B&M's are more comfortable by FAR than Vekoma's. The restraints are genius, obviously considering where they came from. A simple pad is all your resting on, and I find the facing the ground style vs, facing the sun style much more comfortable. I would always say on SUF or Air's lift hill, "This is the most comfortable restraint ever!" And it is.
B&M's have the better pacing. While AIR kinda lolligaged around a bit, it worked. It felt like flying soooo much more than the Vekoma's and even moreso than Superman. Superman's Pretzel Loop is the best element seen on any flyer, and the two horseshoe curves and heartline worked very well! I like everything about Superman.
The Vekoma's. Well, I loved Stealth when I first rode in in March 2001. Then I rode more and more of the Dutchman and realized that they really weren't all that comfortable or exciting. I like the rollover at the beginning and I LOVE the horseshoe, but other than that, the rattle takes away a lot of the excitement I would have found. It's definitely an intense coaster, I'll say that for it.
So in the end, B&M owns the flyers. The end.
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"No honey, the monkeys have already done enough damage on this trip." - Guy coming out of front gate at SFGAd
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- Peabody
Oh well, I still agree with Charles N, everything about my ride was amazing!
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Vekoma!
I don't know that I'd describe the B&M restraints as "comfortable". Less uncomfortable than Vekoma without a doubt, but pretty much anything even remotely safe is going to be uncomfortable considering the position you ride in.
Then again, like I said previously, I'm less than enamored with flying coasters in general. I did X-Flight in 2001 and wondered what the fuss was all about. I did it again this year and with the novelty gone I was even less impressed. We visited a friend in Atlanta and I decided to see B&M's take on the flying design and then I realized I'm just not into them.
What's even worse is that I traveled from Florida to Ohio to ride X-Flight the first time and for S:UF I traveled from PA to GA. Kind of backwards, huh?
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www.coasterimage.com
Brent,
No, I personally didn't count the words...I just copied your post into Word and let it do the "dirty work". ;) I just had to razz you on it... ;)
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--George H
---Superman the ride...coming to a SF park near you soon...
I guess I found the beemer flying position the most comfortable I have ever been on a coaster. Absolutely no stress on your body at all. And this from a 210 pound 6 foot tall guy.
I could have slept in that thing.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
Yes Virginia, I am Santa Claus!
I AM WITTY!
Peabody said:
Agreed. I just want to know what the Vekoma's engineers were thinking (smoking?) when they designed those needlessly complex trains.-----------------
- Peabody
To design something so complex, you really can't be smoking anything. It's more like, you hire engineers who love to use the word "overkill."
Coasterman Mike - who understands that Vekoma was only doing their best to provide the safest possible ride
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My 2002 Coaster Season Video Review is now available here: http://www.geocities.com/coasterman_mike
LOL Good enough George
BTW I can't wait to get out to your neck of the woods to ride your new flyer.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
Yes Virginia, I am Santa Claus!
I AM WITTY!
Coasterman Mike said:
To design something so complex, you really can't be smoking anything. It's more like, you hire engineers who love to use the word "overkill."
Coasterman Mike - who understands that Vekoma was only doing their best to provide the safest possible ride
I know, man, that's why I used a " ;) ". They REALLY went overboard though!
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- "I used to be in the audio/visual club, but I was kicked out because of my views on Vietnam........and I was stealing projectors" - Homer Simpson
I have only been on Stealth, perhaps the worst existing flyer. I can say that I really didn't like it much.
First, I agree with everyone that the restraints are not only clumsy, but feel...how should I say this...not too secure. The ride op at PGA did not put my lapbar down nearly far enough. This means that I was hanging on for dear life and hoping that the good ol' vest wouldn't fail me!
On top of that, they take forever to load, with the "commplicated" restraints. Nobody gets it without help from the ride op. This means the line moves....slow!
And my final, and most serious complaint is the lack of flying time! Its all inversions! That is not what I envision flying coasters to be about. You need to spend the ride time in the flying position, not constantly inverting!
That is where I think B&M have done the concept better than Vekoma. Their restraints are a little more "down to earth," yet still appear to be secure.
Superman: Ultimate Flight appears to have more flying time than any of the Vekomas. This alone is what makes the difference for me. AIR seems to be even more focused on the flying element, using terrain to assist this sensation.
I'm going to go a bit out there now and offer my enthusiast opinion to the trained B&M and Vekoma engineers. B&M technially needs no inversions in their flyers, as they move to that position in the station. I would like to see them build one, with no inversions and purely flying time. I would challenge a park to create effective scenery for this ride...perhaps in a forest or following the terrain. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe enthusiasts wouldn't go for this, but I have the strangest feeling that the more time these rides spend flying, the better they will become.
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Xcelerator-
0-82 in 2.3 seconds! =Wow!
The flying time on S:UF is really not that great. It just seems to amble without doing much.
Excpet for the Pretzel the Vekoma layout far exceeds the B and M layout. I would dare say that The Vekomas do have more flying time then the B and M's. Or so it seems.
The Helix which the B and M's so need is all about flying closer and closer to the ground. I love it.
Like I said. Even with a superior layout the Vekoma's have a lot of catch up to do. It doesn't make up for the restraints and the Pretzel.
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Coming in 2003-The Spawn Of Magnum!
Yes Virginia, I am Santa Claus!
I AM WITTY!
That is where I think B&M have done the concept better than Vekoma. Their restraints are a little more "down to earth," yet still appear to be secure.
Much easier, faster and simpler in general. I know what you mean about feeling like you could fall out at any moment on the Vekoma - I swear my legs are mere inches away from slipping right out every time I ride. The B&M system is very secure. Note: secure doesn't equal comfortable :)
Except for the Pretzel the Vekoma layout far exceeds the B and M layout.
Amen.
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www.coasterimage.com
Peabody said:
Agreed. I just want to know what the Vekoma's engineers were thinking (smoking?) when they designed those needlessly complex trains.
Take a wild guess.. :) I think that it is kind of proven that the KISS-principle does not count in flying coasters. Even though the B&M system is very simple indeed, the complex Vekoma system is superior. B&M has had several (well, a lot actually) problems bringing their trains into prone position, and even more bringing their trains back into boarding position.
The complete system came apart in Alton Towers. The bar that is used to prone and unprone the seats broke in half. I think that when I visited Alton Towers back in May, there was a vehicle malfunctioning about every hour. According to the operator, there where about 2 or 3 vehicle malfunctionings every hour on a bad day. He found the system rather unreliable.
Can anyone tell me if Vekoma experienced similar difficulties? I know they still haven't figgured out how the tilt on the lift-hill.
I myself got stuck on AIR's brakerun for about 10 to 15 minutes due to a vehicle malfuntioning. And I can tell you MagnumForce, I would rather face up than down in a B&M contraption. You can't see anything but straight down, and that's just an inch or so. You can try to look ahead or aside by moving your head, but that is extremely stressfull for your neck.
I'm just not sure about the whole concept of a flying coaster. I am sure that B&M and Vekoma will try to convince us that a flyer indeed is a great coastin within the next couple of years.. :)
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