coo man chu
Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:48 PM
Okay, to my understanding that the whole point of OTSR's are to keep the people inside the ride while performing slow inversions, or inversions involving laterals. ie: corkscrews, batwings etc.
But wait.. newly modified FOF performs such manuevers, and they have only lapbars. If coasters can perform these without OTSR's, what is the point of having them? The people won't fall out. The people will be fine..
So why have them????
please clear this up
PCW needs something taller than a boomerang
Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:59 PM
Lap bars keep people in just as well as OTSRs, as long as they are the correct kind of lap bar. Some coasters uses lapbars as the 2nd means of restraint, and a seat belt as the 1st, those would not be able to do corkscrews, but they are only woodies anyways.
Then there are other lapbars like FOF's that hold you in well enough for those. I'm sure they will hold you in upsidedown for hours if they had to, but that should never need to happen. I belive a boomerang in Europe got stuck in the boomerang element, and has only lapbars. Because it has only lapbars, injuries were less because presure was not on the rider's shoulders, but laps which is stronger.
CCI woodies: A gift from the gods.
5 Days left.
Friday, July 20, 2001 5:26 AM
TrBiggar, it wasn't a Boomerang, but rather a shuttle loop. Close enough for jazz, I guess. :)
coo man chu, you've hit on exactly what I have been saying for better than ten years now. In fact, let's take it a step further. I suspect that the shoulder bar was developed in part because early testing on the Corkscrew was done with racing belts, probably by people who had no idea how to adjust them properly. The shoulder bar was developed as an attempt to emulate the racing belt. Pity it doesn't work.
In fact, the shoulder bar is not adequate to secure a rider through, for instance, a slow inversion. We got a dramatic demonstration of that with the Flight Commander incident at Kings Island (although that ride did have something of a lap bar) and with the Drop Zone incident at PGA. The shoulder bar does not secure the body at its center of mass, and therefore will allow the rider to slide out from underneath. A lap bar, on the other hand, if properly designed, will positively prevent the rider from being dumped from the seat.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Who is living proof that you can safely do a barrel roll without a shoulder restraint....
Friday, July 20, 2001 5:29 AM
I knew Dave would be quick to jump on this one. Now Dave, tell them about the barrel roll... it illustrates your point very well, if at your own expense.
Regarding the original question: 30 years of dogma, finally challenged by Paramount and Premier Rides. That's all I'm going to say for now.
Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
Friday, July 20, 2001 6:33 AM
Hey I am all for more lap bars. I rode The Demon at SFGAm with the shoulder harness barely touching me. That is an old Arrow looper and the loops ans corkscrews are pretty slow. Im still here, physically at least...
Friday, July 20, 2001 9:05 AM
For one. If old arrows get retro fitted by arrow(not morgan) They still won't have lapbars. Arrow will just put in those side locking restraints as found on the soon to be X and whenever they build the arrowbatic. It wont hurt since those are way low on neck moreso not really their. B&M might even change their designs since they know thier big OTSR does hinder view. Their speedcoaster lapbar is suffiencent. But need more locking lvl to get that tight Hypersonic/FOF fit, no biggie though.
Friday, July 20, 2001 9:38 AM
Actually, B&M's big lap bar is also an excellent design. It accomplishes the same thing as the Premier and Schwarzkopf ankle bars in a different way: the bar extends across the thighs, again making it nearly impossible to straighten your legs out and exit from under the bar.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
Friday, July 20, 2001 12:39 PM
I know that all the roller coaster enthusiasts would say that lap bars would be much better on coasters with inversions. But if all coasters just had laps bars, don't you think the General Public might not like the idea?
Cedar Point! The Greatest Place on Earth!
Friday, July 20, 2001 1:08 PM
Too many members of the GP do feel they're neccessary. Look at the special about WE Mall, when they talk about the MindBender accident, the newspapers and all the people they show are like "all other rides that go upside down have something to hold the riders by the shoulders". Uggghhhh! If you don't go to the parks often, maybe you feel it's important, because it was told to you. I see these people riding loopers pushing the restraints way tight and holding onto them with good grip. Me, I think that whole OTSR is a big moving thing that I'm afraid to touch, because after all, it is designed to open, and I know the chances are small while riding, it's just not cool, IMO. Lapbars with the "square on top", that's cool, plus the side clip FOF style:)......
Friday, July 20, 2001 7:37 PM
The GP are idiots. Watch them strapping into a 4-point harness on a Go-Kart sometime. Every one of them will fasten the belt, then cinch up the shoulder straps first, ending up with the buckle up against their sternum someplace. I don't know where people get these funny ideas about how they should be secured, but consecutive rides on a Kamikaze and on a Loop-O-Plane would be enough to change some opinions, I think...!
--Dave Althoff, Jr.