Coaster Envy

Well, part of it also comes down to my belief that having your park be defined by its coaster collection is bad for overall quality. Coasters should be a part of the whole package. Look at BGW. They've got only five coasters, but as a whole, BGW is far and away a better park than most. As such, why waste precious real estate building ride after ride after ride? After a while, it starts detracting from the quality of the park. I don't need a new coaster every other year. I just want a few good rides and a nice overall park.

Now, is it bad business? I'm not sure. Canada's Wonderland has certainly done well for itself, but really, besides Backlot Stunt Coaster, Behemoth, Leviathan, and Vortex, they could get rid of nearly every other major coaster there and I wouldn't miss them. They could ditch The Bat, Flight Deck, MCM, Sky Rider, Time Warp, and Wild Beast, replace all six of them with a sick B&M invert, a Gravity Group Wooden Coaster, and a GCII wooden coaster, and probably come out ahead in capacity and quality, not to mention reduced operating costs. I know the installation costs alone make that idea little more than enthusiast fantasy, and I know that what might be a lame ride now was the hottest thing on the block when it was built, but it goes all the way back to making each investment really count as opposed to just building, building, building just to say you have more rides.

Tekwardo said:
Bill, you're about 10 years off on Two Face's removal ;). I know cause I rode it in 2001, and then in 2007 (On a trip with you!).

Getting old is hell - I wasn't ten years off on the removal, I was honestly ten years off on when it is now....seriously, that post was noontime so there was NO intoxicant use - but I was thinking it was '02 at the time.

I remember missing the Invertigoes during the "front vs. back ride" discussion last month....those rides mess me up, LOL.

ApolloAndy said:

I know I am in the minority, but I was pretty "meh" on SFoT's coasters before NTG. Not a huge fan of B:TR, Freeze, Titan or Shockwave, mostly because I'm a sissy when it comes to positive G's. NTG, on the other hand, is worth every other coaster in the park combined, IMO.

Coasterhound, I don't get your argument (mostly because I don't think you have one). Are you saying it's a bad business decision for the park or are you saying you personally don't like it? Because the first reeks of ignorance and the second of entitlement.

Can the park physically install all kinds of new fangled coasters? Surely. Is there a need to when 2 years ago we got the best coaster this side of the Mississippi (IMO)? Surely not.

Bless your heart Andy - I was merely saying I think that the space created by the removal could have been better used for something else. But then again given your weakness towards coasters with excessive G-forces I can see where youd think that the Texas Giant would be the best coaster on this side of the river - but as you said it was your opinion.

Coasterhound36 said:
I was merely saying I think that the space created by the removal could have been better used for something else.

Really? That's not at all what I got from your original post.

Me either. And NTG IS the best coaster west of the Mississippi ;).

I honestly think that SFoT is one of the Six Flags parks doing it right. Rumor has it that they purchased the building/land behind Batman for future expansion. They have a well rounded ride selection. I don't see them 'lacking' in any category, honestly. They have inverted, inversions, airtime, wood, steel, launched, spinning, kiddy, and family coasters.

But no flyer or wingrider! ;) In all seriousness, I am pretty surprised that SFoT didn't end up with a B&M flyer of some sort. All the other big SF's got one.

And just out of sheer curiosity, Coasterhound, what coasters west of the Mississippi do you like more than NTG?

ApolloAndy said:

But no flyer or wingrider! ;) In all seriousness, I am pretty surprised that SFoT didn't end up with a B&M flyer of some sort. All the other big SF's got one.

And just out of sheer curiosity, Coasterhound, what coasters west of the Mississippi do you like more than NTG?

At least Andy I agree on the same inquiry. There is only ONE B&M coaster in the park and its not even a custom designed inverted. I was REALLY hoping for SFOT to take the reigns and build a flyer or wing coaster.

Andy, before I answer your question, are we speaking just wood/hybrid coasters or any coasters in general? My answer will vary.

In fairness to SFOT, B&M has yet to build a better invert design than the first. :)

Well, at least of those I've ridden, but I'd like to think that there are only a handful of contenders left.

sirloindude said:

In fairness to SFOT, B&M has yet to build a better invert design than the first. :)

Well, at least of those I've ridden, but I'd like to think that there are only a handful of contenders left.

Sirloin, you gotta be kidding me? You really think that the BTR designs are better than Montu and Alpengeist ?

Better than Alpengeist, certainly. That ride has huge elements that come many seconds apart. It's too big.

What can I say? B-TR has intensity and pacing like no other, and is not only my favorite invert, but my favorite coaster with inversions, period.. Afterburn is the closest any other invert I've ridden has come to matching it. Montu would probably be my number 3 invert.

Hopefully I'll get to ride B:TR next year when I'm out in Cali, but for the time being, Montu is hands down my favorite invert. It is just ridiculously forceful and a really fun layout. I may get a headache, but I have to ride it multiple times when I head over to BGT.

I find the Batmen a little too intense. I still enjoy them, but prefer the larger ones.

I think it's interesting how most people believe inverts need to be smaller with "snappier," more forceful elements to be good, but at the same time I wonder if that's the case because Batman was the first. Alpengeist was my first invert, and it's my favorite. Maybe there's something to that.

I can totally understand someone finding Batman - The Ride too intense. Aside from that one brief reprieve leading into the first corkscrew, the ride is relentless.

With that said, I like the mega-inverts very much as well. Alpengeist is BGW's best ride, IMO, even if it isn't as vicious as some of the other inverts out there.

Yeah, the relentlessness BTR delivers is also what I dig about it. That loop-zero g-loop combination is killer. Unfortunately by the brake run I almost always have a raging headache.

Raptor in the back row would be the best invert out there if it were not for Montu. Ice Dragon... Err I mean Hungarian Horntail ranks right up there in my book as well.

I like the BTR rides, don't get me wrong, but in ranking B&M inverts (only) I have the following ranked in order down to the first Batman Clone (and oG's does a little more for me, so it ranks higher than the rest):

Afterburn
Silver Bullet
Great Bear
Talon
Fire Dragon
Raptor
Alpengeist
Batman The Ride (SFoG)

The Batmen are definitely a little intense.

I like the BTRs, but they're sort of middle of the pack for me. They can be a little too much at times and I agree with Jeff that the bigger ones are meh.

Talon and Afterburn hit the sweet spot, I think.

I love the intensity of the B:TR - esp. the opening sequence and helix.

But the most *fun* on the inverts is when they're NOT inverting. The meandering sections are what make Patriot, Talon, Silver Bullet, Afterburn, Fire Dragon, Great Bear, and Montu so much fun. And it is what's noticeably lacking on the B:TR model. The helix does not function as a respite from all the inversions, LOL.

I absolutely love me some Talon. The drop after the helix actually gives decent air and on an invert no less. After that it's Fire, Montu, and then "everything else" with B:TR definitely pulling up the rear. But as I mentioned before, I'm a sissy when it comes to positive G's. Somehow Patriot is just missing something that Talon has. 

CoasterHound - Doesn't really matter about wood/steel/hybrid. Whatever response you want to give. I consider NTG to be the best coaster West of the Mississippi period. (Full disclosure, of the West coasters that could hold a candle to NTG, I haven't ridden Tremors, Tatsu, or Apocalypse).