Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:46 AM
Interesting article, I like the political spin.
Anyway, with the increasing dominant use of aracde floor space for 'redepmtion games' I can easily see how any jurisdiction that wants to give a park or aracde a hard time could decide that they are gambling devices. I mean we aren't talking about skill games like Skeeball. We are talking about games with objects like "Push the button or drop your coin in at the exact fraction of a second needed to trigger a payoff" For a good example look for a Colorama machine in your nearest arcade, tell me that isn't a poor-man's Roulette. (Drop a coin, pick a color, if the ball lands in the pocket of your color, you win)
Seems to meet a liberal definition of gambling, that is you are paying money, to attempt to win a prize (thing of value), that is determined primarily by chance.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:16 AM
I read a very interesting book on the history of video games last year. Apparently, the pinball industry nearly went out of business in the mid-20th century when overzealous politicians deemed them gambling machines. I guess they were still banned in NYC until very recently.... 1980s?
Anyway, I agree that redemption games are highly addictive, but so what? States are bending laws like crazy to open all kinds of gambling establishments. I doubt there are a dozen states that don't have full-fledged casinos.
I love those "slider" games, especially when they were legal in Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge and actually gave you quarters. I spent many a dollar on those.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:13 PM
Those slider games are great; get more tokens/quarters for other games. But, you rarely see them anywhere anymore, the ones that replace them are stupid ones just for tickets. Guess they are illegal in most states.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:16 PM
Sliders (or Dozers) are still quite common. Admittedly most sliders have been converted to either issue tickets or special tokens that CAN'T be replayed.
Traveling shows (carnivals) seem to be the most likely place to find sliders that return coins.
To give you an idea, a few Las Vegas Casinos have installed sliders. If that doesn't tell you its gambling and the odds are stacked against you....
Also, I think I have read the same book.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:17 PM
The suburb of Cleveland that I reside in (North Olmsted) just legalized pinball machines a few years ago. The mall arcade, as well as the one down the street had many video games, but no pins till recently.
Sliders are fun... Some states I have been to at the truck stops, actually throw a few bills in there to add to the excitement, so if you push the bill over, it is yours. This of course is gambling, as you receive quarters in payout as well.
The boardwalk in Atlantic City is the complete oposite of Celebration City. The arcades there have retired slot machines (from the big casinos) that anyone/any age can play, that dispense tickets for redemption. Trully amazing... Same country but so different.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 3:43 PM
Things like views on gambling make you realize that the United States is, in fact, a group of seperate but united States (and Commonwealths for the nitpickers).
For a lot of subjects, it is truly up to each State to determine what is perimitted in their State, and how this will be done in each State. Mind you there seems to be a lot of cases where a trend develops where most (if not all) States take the same viewpoint, or enact similar laws. (Mind you, it took an Italian to make me think of the USA in this manner.)
To bring this post on topic, a key example for this group would be how each State chooses to handle (or not to handle) the regulation of amusement rides.
State of Ohio
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 3:58 PM
Isn't the Pinball Shoppe in N. Olmsted? That's where I bought my machine.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:21 PM
It is very transparent that this is a 'tit for tat' responce to the fact that HFEC is anit-gambling.
The nearby town of Rockaway Beach wants to let in river boat casinos and HFEC has been very vocal against it. Feeling that the crowds attracked by the river boat gambling will hurt the family friendly atmosphere that Branson has nurtured.
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 9:13 PM
Actually the pinball machine that many talk about being gambling machines are the flipperless (bingo) games that are still around. You can play many of these games in local bars or clubs throughout western Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio, California and the NW US. These games are gambling devices in the way they are operated to pay out. If your not familier with these games there are different styles but for the most part they are like playing bingo. Most machines have 25 holes, some have 28 and the rare ones have 10. You buy bingo cards that are on the backglass, most times it is .25 for 3 cards then you buy into additional cards or winning features. You get 5 balls to play, the object of the game is to shoot the balls into the pay field and guide them to the number that you need. The object is to match your numbers in a line, 3-4 or 5 in a line wins you points (or in bingo pinball language TICS). Some places will pay 10 cents a tic while others can pay 25 cents a tic, but you have to have over 100 tics to cash in. Some machines are set up to pay out different amounts of tics based on what cards you are playing. Example, there is a game called Shoot-A-Line it is a 28 hole game. You pay 25 cents and get the first 3 cards, if you get 3 in a line on card 1 you win 4 tics, but say you get 5 in a line on card 3 you win 85 tics. With these tics you can then buy cards 4-5 and 6. Of course the odds go up with these cards but so does the payoffs. I have won my share of money on these games but also lost some cash also. If you ever get a chnace to play one it does take great skill and patience. As for regular flipper pinball games, no I have never heard a system set up for them to be used as a gambling device. I know several places that offer gifts for high scores but that to me isnt gambling.
As for other games of chance considered as gambling, as stated by many state laws, "A gambling device is one that is designed to pay out a certin amount of money based on the games design". So you local Dave and Busters or local arcade really cannot be considered a place of gambling unless they pay out cash winnings for their games of chance.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:27 AM
Pinball Shoppe is indeed in North Olmsted. They have been there for a number of years. Space Invaders was the arcade I was talking about. It was where the parking lot for CVS was. Pinball Shoppe was alowed to sell them, but Tilt, Spare Change and Space Invaders wasnt allowed to use them. What pinball machine do you have Jeff?
Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:44 AM
I've got a Jurassic Park machine.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:44 PM
I played a slider on a Caribbean cruise ship last year. It's *very* mesmerizing. But after sitting there for a while, I told my friend I may as well have been sitting on deck piching quarters over the side of the ship one-by-one, for all the payout I got. But they're amusing, especially when, like someone else said, they pop a few bills in there, or little prizes like keychains.