Cedar Point considering lower admission rates

You can legitmately do Geauga Lake in a day...including the waterpark. I don't think you can say the same about Cedar Point/Soak City.

Additionally, Cedar Fair is trying to fill something like 1,300 hotel rooms not too mention Camper Village/Lighthouse Point which Geauga Lake is not trying to do.

They aren't going to combine the parks short of what they have already which is combo passes. If anything I'm sure they'd like to add another "gated attraction" to extend the stay needs of current resort guests. That, as much as anything, is why...if Ohio were to ever pass a gambling initiative, Cedar Point would want to be a player.

There are some good points here. I really think the next big investment should be on something for the whole family. A good dark ride could do wonders. I don't think Soak City should be combined though. I don't see it raising the number of visitors too much, and would definitely cut into profits. I do think lowering the price of going into Cedar Point would be a great positive though (although not as great as lowering parking and in park prices).

Personally, I've gone from a person who adored Cedar Point and thought nearly everything Cedar Fair ever did made good sense to wondering, "what the hell they are thinking?"

A lot of people feel that the character, atmosphere, and service at CP has been declining since somewhere around 2001. The Dragster fiasco for three seasons now has surely turned a lot of people sour. The park that has in the past had an unmatched reputation for efficiency and ride uptime now has Dragster sitting for going on a month without launching. Sure, I understand that they had some bad luck with the motor, but I have to think that it would have been fixed by now had this been July. I also have to think that the CP of 10 years ago would have had at least some commonly used "spare parts" on hand so these 3 and 4 days here and there of "waiting for a part" wouldn't happen so often.

This year has been possibly the biggest dropoff yet in terms of guest service with crews seemingly not giving a rat's ass about their jobs, freeway being cut mid season, ride agains for inconvenienced guests being cut mid season, poor staffing on their brand new ride, assinine operational procedures that make things more difficult and less efficient, etc. At the beginning of this season, I was quick to criticize some lower level managers and some seasonal employees, but it's fairly evident to me now that much of this is just crap flowing downhill from the top.

What halfway decent person in their right mind wants to work for a company that lays a person off after he has worked there 25+ years? Who wants to work for a company that announces benefit cuts for all new employees? Who wants to work for a company that cuts one of the two big events for seasonal employees that has been a tradition for years (Calypso Bash)? Who wants to work in a place that cuts traditional weekly "ride nights" due to the budget? Who wants to work at a place that cuts an annual event for its full time staffers? Who wants to work in a place that has been making the job less fun for a couple years now (pay has remained the same)? Hearing these types of things makes it much easier to understand why almost no worker in the place has a smile on their face anymore. And guests DO notice. I haven't bothered making as many trips to CP this year because I feel like they aren't going out of their way nearly as much as they did previously to ensure that guests have a great day. A high admission price might be worth paying if you get treated like something besides a sucker once you are in the door. CP seems to have lost sight of this.

I see a lot of troubling trends within Cedar Fair. I'm not talking about their sagging unit price or what may be a disappointing season or two due to a poor economy in the midwest. I'm talking about real cultural problems within the company that will hinder them far beyond the next earnings announcement. They better wake up and realize it soon or they will suffer the same fate as Six Flags did. Short sighted decisions might save a few dollars now, but think about how much more it costs to get a new customer contmpared to how much it costs to not lose a current one. Cutting the prices on admission might help bring a few extra people out, but it's not going to stop the growing feelings of negativity toward the park.

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wahoo skipper done said:You can legitmately do Geauga Lake in a day...including the waterpark. I don't think you can say the same about Cedar Point/Soak City.

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See, that's the exact reason that I would combine the gates.

Again, it's back to the perceived value. You can't do both parks in one day anyhow. They still have to come back the second day to go to Soak City, but people are now thinking "two parks for the price of one!"

I use italics a lot!

I wonder how much the seat belt issue on MF has hurt attendance? With TTDs down time and the ever shortning belts on MF I think that a lot of people have left The Point with a sour taste in their mouth.

The high cost of food in the park does not help either.

I agree completely with Wahoo Skipper. They have lost sight of what made the park great. It was, a great family destination. There were rides, shows and attractions that appealed to virtually every age group. By removing the old style spectaculars and not replacing them, they alienated a large segment of their market. Maxair, while a step in the right direction, is definitely not enough. You need a balance in attractons, something that George Roose and Emil LeGross learned early on, something that was quickly forgotten once they were no longer around. Not to mention doing it right! Saving a few thousand a year by not restoring the band organs, or reducing the CP&LE to a mere shadow of it's glorious self does not leave a good impression on people, especially people who remember the way it used to be. If you do it right, the people will come, and so will the profits.

While we are bashing and playing armchair CEO's...

Does anybody miss the dolphins? Jungle Jim's? Pirate Ride? Earthquake? Anybody remember the old upsidedown fun house? The river cruise before there were coaster supports in every scene...?

Little things that may seem a bit cheesy, but certainly appealed to grandma/grandpa and the toddlers.

Is it possible that more than what they are not adding, it could be about what they have taken out? Or is it more probable that my childhood memories are inflated? :-)

I still question the strategy of turning a regional park into a resort in Ohio... I've consistently felt that this was a flawed strategy... Four months does not a year make. Nobody wants to hang on Erie in the winter.

...but I'm certainly not qualified to have much other than an uninformed opinion without seeing the bottom line. I'm in good company!

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CP ismyhome said:I wonder how much the seat belt issue on MF has hurt attendance? With TTDs down time and the ever shortning belts on MF I think that a lot of people have left The Point with a sour taste in their mouth.

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it's one of the reasons I haven't gone there the last two seasons. It (MF seatbelt) also is the reason my sister's family won't go there next year either. My bro in law tried to get on, he was fine at the test seat, waited in line then they told him he didn't fit in the station.

MF's seatbelt an issue in sagging attendance? That's a load of crap. Look at the world around you, people..... Gas is $2.50-$3.00 a gallon, GOOD jobs are not plentiful in Ohio thanks to our pea-brained governor (who, coincidentally, looks like Howdy Doody's illegitimate son), and they have not had a major coaster to draw more people in since TTD (which had more than its fair share of growing pains).

The truth of it is, people, a day at Cedar Point is VERY expensive, especially if you want to go to the water park. As to "perceived value" - many people would "perceive" a day spending $200 plus to go to a fun park rather extravagant.

Drops in attendance LAST year could be attributed to the weather and lack of a major new attraction. This year, the economy and gas is to blame.

The admission price isn't the problem.

Total cost is a BIG problem. $9 to park, $3 for a beverage, $4 for a pretzel...that, ultimately is a big problem. You can get someone to spend $40+ to visit the park, but if you're hitting him not just with dings, but with HUGE dings all day long, you're chasing him away and he'll never come back.

Some of that can be avoided if you show the customer a GREAT time. You know, make it expensive, but darn well worth it. But that's not working either, because it ISN'T darn well worth it anymore. A lot of it comes from turning park operations, which as recently as 2002 Mr. Kinzel was admitting is really the park's most important product, over to the bean counters and the attorneys. How else do you explain often-bizarre operational changes which have destroyed capacity on six coasters and in some cases increased the chances of accident or injury, all in the name of "safety"? Last time I rode Millennium Force, I waited 45 minutes from just a little past the bottom of the final entrance ramp; I hate to think what that means for days when the line stretches all the way to the queue entrance, which used to be a 70-minute wait! The park's top-billed ride hasn't run in a month. The combination of the way the park has treated its employees and the (bizarre) operational directives from (???) result in marked and unpleasant changes to the way the employees treat the customers, and by the end of the day, the customer not only hasn't had a great time, he's not even happy.

The customer spent some $60 just to get in the gate, an untold fortune on his lunch and dinner, and in exchange he gets to stand in lines that are unreasonably long, only to receive treatment just short of abuse from surly, over-worked, under-paid, under-appreciated park employees. What possible reason does he have to ever come back? And what will he tell his friends?

This is the kind of stuff that is insidious because it won't immediately show up in the bottom line. Especially in an environment where there are many once-a-year customers. The problem is not that people stop coming, the problem is that they stop coming back, and they stop sending their friends. Even worse, when it happens, it's extremely difficult to fix. Worst of all, Cedar Fair knows about this and knows how difficult it is to bring back formerly-pissed-off customers. After all, what do you think happened to Geauga Lake?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Oh you're kidding? We have people commenting on the negative aspects of Cedar Point? I never would have thought the day would come, here. ;)

Are you kidding? Except for the kids that don't buy their own tickets and season passes anyway, it goes on continuously on PointBuzz. You won't find many people that think the park is perfect.

You're right Jeff. I call it a case of us "kids" growing wiser over the past few years. I used to be a CP fanboy I guess in most respects, always finding an excuse for rides not working ("its new technology", "its a new ride", etc.) I think you're finding more and more of the "regular" posters over at Pointbuzz are tired of whats going on and are telling it like it is. Sure, CP/CF cares more about what the GP thinks, but when us "enthusiasts" go to work, school, or any type of social event where the park may come up in conversation, that is a lot of negative publicity that is being spread and that is something obviously that the park does not want.

I think both sides are right (Prey is dead on about "growing wiser"). In the past year the heat has turned up on CP here (CoasterBuzz). A year or two back, you could not even make a peep about TTD's problems without getting SHOUTED down. At that time, fanboy’s were not ready to tolerate any criticism of the park, no matter how justified… For example, I would think that if anyone dared to say TTD runs 95% of the time (remember that one), they might get laughed at in the present CB climate…

TTD is just one example...anyhow...with the MF seatbelt, TTD downtime, and apparent customer service decline...it would appear we have reached an era on CB where it is now vogue to criticize CP, rightly or wrongly, without fear of the group responses that were so prevalent in the past...

The current climate is more about singing the praises of kiddie rides and water parks while smirking at any large coaster installations. Defending bad CP decisions is so yesterday… :-)

Jeff…who has not been to CP the past 2 years to see the service decline and prefers to remember the good old days!

I'm not sure what to think about the "long line" argument, Dave - as long as I can remember, I have waited at Cedar Point in VERY long lines - and that was back in the day when Gemini and Corkscrew were the big attractions. That did not result attendance issues.

There IS (or at least HAS TO BE) something to the notion though that people who wait in a line all day and get to ride four or five coasters won't be too inclined to come back (especially if the ride breaks down when you're ready to board). But I think the local economy is in the garbage and a growing population of people just simply cannot justify that kind of expenditure. A growing percentage of americans are turning in late credit, auto, and mortgage payments, and that is all being attributed to gas prices. Unless you have a great job, the combined expenditure of everything a day at Cedar Point entails is a lot of money.

opthodoc, if the line for Millennium Force completely fills all three queue blocks, extends into the extension block and out onto the midway, and it takes an hour and a half to get on the ride, most people aren't going to complain too much. When the line for Millennium Force barely extends past the bottom of the ramp and it takes an hour to get on the ride, people have every reason to complain. Waiting in long lines at Cedar Point isn't such a big deal when the lines are moving and they at least give the impression that they care about how long you had to wait.

But ultimately we're all saying the same thing here. It's about value. Going to Cedar Point is expensive any way you do it. But expensive isn't a problem if the expense is for a good value. When the expense increases and the value drops, that gets to be a problem.

(Speaking of Gemini...don't get me started on that one...!)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.