Cedar Fair revenue up, attendance down on same-park basis

A 'Brat' is what the kids turn into if they don't get that $3.00 cotton candy or the $5.00 Dip'N'Dots! Right, Gonch!!? hehe

I can understand lower attendance in some of the northern parks if the economy is struggling in those regions. But, as a regular to KD, the park does not seem to drawing the numbers of years past. I have gone up on a Saturday a couple times this summer and only about 1/2 the parking lot is full. This park used to fill the whole lot and put overflow in the gravel area near the parking entrance. I have yet to see that happen. Course, the prime summer season just started and the next 6 weeks will tell how well CF is marketing the park.

Virginia (Kings Dominion) and North Carolina (Carowinds) have strong economies. A large population with a good deal of disposable income within 2-3 hours of both parks. So why, at least for KD, are they not drawing more people?

Competition? You have Busch Gardens Europe, Six Flags America, and Hershey Park within a 1-3 hour drive max from KD. BGE and HP have a good reputation for quality attractions, food, and entertainment in a clean, fun family atmosphere.

Paramount was the worst thing to happen to KD as far as customer service within the park, a decimated entertainment division, and food service that was low in quality and high in price.

Most of the KD has lost its unique theming. We have lost 3 entertainment venues. Our sky ride and steam train has been removed. The park atmosphere had degraded over the last 5-6 years of Paramount's control to the point it felt more like a seedy carnival than a respected regional theme park. I don't care how many major attractions you put in, if the regional population has a negative perception of the park. You are going to have to make some hard decisions and make radical changes if you truely wish to break out of that negative fog surrounding the park.

I realize that CF is getting first hand experience in running the Paramount parks for their first full season and are learning from it. I've noticed some adjustments with the drink pricing options. The rides are up and running with less down time. The employees are friendlier. I don't expect CF to walk on water; but, as Emereld says on his cooking show, CF might have to make some "BAM !!!!" decisions to get the market's attention.

What they charge for Brats is insane.
I picked up two packs of Johnsonville Brats the other night for $5.00 at Giant Eagle. That's ten brats for 5 bucks vs. 1 for 6.95 with a .25 cent bag of chips and 20 oz pop?
Imagine the type of food deals they get from distributors. Hell, hotdogs probably cost them less than 15 cents apiece.

It cost less for 4 of us to eat at Disney yesterday than for 3 of us to eat at SF or CF this year, and the food was good and not overdone or cold when we got it. I fully expected to pay more at Disney and was pleasantly surprised. Can't say the same for SF or CF.

Gonch,

Obviously you aren't reading my post ;)

The $6.59 price tag for the meal isn't ridiculous, the 25% increase is what was ridiculous. I would still pay for it which reaffirms your theory that the price of food isn't unbearable. It's not too big of a deal to pay more when it's just me and the wife.

However, I pack a cooler when I go to the park with my family and my wife's two siblings. One is 8 the other is 12, the perfect age for the "Ohh! I want that!" or the "I'm hungry!" or the "Can we play at the arcade?" It wouldn't be so bad to take them to these places but when I clearly see that 25% increase across the board, it makes it alot tougher to shell out the money. That's where I see the problem with CF's pricing, I wouldn't mind shelling out the money if they weren't jacking up prices so much every year.

I've already visited KI, KD, Carowinds, MiA with my CP pass (so I'm sure CF execs reading this hate me already ;)) and I see the same pricing that I see at CP and I too think those increases are ridiculous.

There are other cases where the price increases aren't such a bad idea. For example I paid $4 for parking at MiA back in 2003 and paid $7 this year (a 75% increase in 4 years) for essentially the same service at a park that's seeing double-digit growth. Yummy! While I think the whole parking fee is a little out of control at some parks, MiA is taking advantage of something that looked a bargain at the time they acquired the park.

Now is CF smart for doing this to show growth on paper? Heck yeah! But could it hurt them in the long run? I think so. You can only raise your prices so much to show that spending growth. In some cases that seems to be the only band-aid solution that CF has been using for a problem of not delivering that percieved value to the customers of the past that choose not to attend the park in the future. Instead they should be looking at what they can do to bring those people back.

Last year showed that lowering prices didn't bring in the attendance that they had hoped for, attendance still fell, but spending remained the same. What should they do? My vote is focusing on attractions the whole family can do and improving things that could generate money in an efficient way. That means investing in the technology and infrastructure to do that, much how the acquired Paramount parks have in place.

I'm certainly no expert in this. This is only my opinion now that I'm a family man.

It's too bad that Cedar Fair does not break out numbers by park. A lot of the discussion here is focused on Cedar Point, but from what I've seen, CP is doing pretty well this year. I really think the average daily attendance at CP is up this year, as it should be with the addition of Maverick.

In light of the bad Ohio and Michigan economies, and even beyone just that, I think CP needs to make the jump to a true nationaly marketed destination. They are almost there, but to make that jump they need to expand the resort side with more entertainment and shopping outside of the park, more ammenities and bring the whole thing a bit more upscale.

In addtion to the amusements, if you offer enough on the resorts side such clubs, restaurants and shopping in a "Downtown Disney" type place, beef up water sports on the beach, add some party boat excursions to the Lake Erie Islands, build more hotels and increase the quality of all their hotels, Cedar Fair would have a national destination resort.

Watch revenue shoot up tremendously if they do that. It sure would beat selling soda for $3.50 a glass in value to shareholders.

The line I found most interesting was

"... while the introduction of new marketing programs at several of our southern and western region parks have been met with some resistance, our management team has been quick to make adjustments to these programs."

Resistance by who? Staff? Patrons? Local Communities? The Borg? Bratwurst?

I have been making the same argument as Jeff for a few years now. There is going to be a breaking point....and I don't think it is far off...where the attendance decline and the per cap increase are not going to be going in opposite directions. At some point, the per cap increase is not going to offset the attendance decrease no matter how much they raise prices.

When that happens, what is next? Sure, economy is part of the problem but the other issue is the way people are getting their entertainment these days. What is happening in the amusement park industry isn't unlike what it happening in the movie/television industries. People are finding more reasons to stay at home and do something other than watch traditional tv. The internet, gaming, etc is undermining these industries.

What is the solution? Well the short term answer (which Cedar Fair leadership tends to gravitate to most of the time) is to just keep trying to squeeze water from the sponge. But as we all know...that isn't a long term answer. The long term answer is going to take some ingenuity, some forward thinking and some daring (which Cedar Fair leadership...and the amusement industry in general tend to gravitate away from most of the time).

Maybe they are going to have to look into attractions/experiences that embrace the new technologies. Rides that can incorporate a participant using his/her ipod or iphone as part of the experience. Experiences at the park that can be extended at home on the computer. Hotel rooms that embrace new technologies instead of trying to pretend they don't exist.

I'm a shareholder and I am concerned. I just don't see how this trend can last and I agree with Jeff that the tipping point is drawing near.

I think Shapiro is right in trying to make his parks family friendly, but when you charge $15 to park, $3.50 for a bottle of soda or water and then run rides less than capacity in a attempt to force more people to buy q-bots isnt family friendly and will result in lower attendance and eventually less reveune when people go to other entertainment options. Shapiro has done a good job of talking but I havent see the positive results in the Six Flags parks ive been too since he took over.
Im sick of all the crass Geico/Home Depot stuff seen all over the parks which ruins the attempt of theming they do and getting rid of local food optyions they had and bringing in crappy pizza like Papa Johns!!

The best way to combat this is spend as little in a park as you can which is why my family doesnt eat at our local SF parkand buys little if anything inside the park. If you are going to ripoff your guests with overpriced crappy food the best will to show your disgust is with your wallt and leave.

Hmmm...After coming back from a trip that involved three Cedar Fair parks, I have a few things to say concerning food-pricing, crowd levels, and the quality of one of their hotels.

Geagua Lake
----------
The three other guys already had Maxx passes, so I was the only one to buy one and got the coupons that came with it. I think it was kind of stupid to have all the coupons on one sheet of paper. It kind of makes it hard to put in your pocket (hint: and actually spend money!).

I think the Six Flags coupon books (I have two since I have a Premium Pass) it the better way to go since they actually do fit in your pocket. We would've definitely gotten something to eat with the coupons, but nothing was open. So I'm sorry to say that Subway which is right across the street from the park-side won out.

We knew going in that the weather was going to be absolutely terrible that day (rain, and heavier rain w/t-storms), but there were extended periods of sunshine as well. Either groups canceled due to the forecast, or there were no summercamps having an outing on a Tuesday. It just seemed bizzare based on the parks back in the East.

Cedar Point (two-days)
-------------------
We got two pizza pies for around twenty-dollars a piece near Maverick on day one. We had been used to paying those prices at KD and I think CP's pizza tasted better. On day two, the guys ate a buffet near the front of the park for $12.99, while I ate at a burger place under Raptor.

My meal w/fries came to somewhere near $15 with drink. I had a double-chesseburger and the patties were large and the fries were pretty good. Now back at the buffet, after an extended rain delay, I saw a manager change the price to $14.99, and even the senior price went up two-dollars with nothing running in the park. I was thought that was pretty low.

Neither day seemed excessively crowded and Thursday was a little bit lighter.

We stayed at Breaker's Express and I think we all really liked the place. It felt like an mid-scale chain motel/hotel. I thought the staff were excellent, especially when Jon was having trouble breathing and needed to go seek medical attention upon check-in. The two check-in young woman worked together to get my friends directions. I'd definitely stay there again.

King's Island
-----------
New to the park was a converted place called Wing's Buffet. You pay a flat-fee (it was somewhere near $15) and eat all-you-want. I thought the quality of the food was excellent and there was plenty to choose from. This was definitely the better alternative to a pizza place that had us all going "No sir, I'm not paying those prices for a slice of pizza." Note; We did not eat on day two at the park because we left at 4 p.m. at decided to gain some ground home first.

Ok, It's a Friday, and where is everyone? It just seemed really dead from what I've experienced in the past and you've got a "brand-new ride." We go back on Saturday expecting the worst from last year's BeastBuzz and again--Where is everyone?

Boomerang Bay had very tolerable crowd levels, and in the main park you could actually put out both arms to your sides and probably not intentionally hit someone. That would've been an impossibiity last year. Granted there was more rain, but I don't think it was terrible.

Doesn't have much to do with the topic, but I'm curious what time it was that the Midway Market price was changed. Could it have been the switch from lunch to dinner which is like 3 or 3:30 I think? Because that is something they've been doing for years.

If they jacked it up just because it was raining and people had nothing else to do, then I agree, that is a kick in the balls.

I'm still not sure why Cedar Point isn't trying to pull in people from outside of their "local" market. If the local economy is poor, try to pull people from economies that are booming. They're one of the most recognized "thrill parks" in the world. It shouldn't be too hard for them to pull in people from all over the US or even overseas. They also have more rides than any other park, lots being for families. They have the infrastructure and size to support multi-day visits, so I'm not sure why they're not trying to increase attendance this way. Offer more vacation packages, advertise to a broader market, build more resorts, offer more to do after the parks close, expand the water park, bring in more corporate picnics and catering events or partner with complimentary attractions nearby. There's a ton they can do to increase attendance. They just have to look outside their backyard.

I also agree their food prices aren't out of control yet. Buying food in Ohio is a total bargain for me anymore. I can buy dinner for my brother's family, my parents and I for what it costs for like three people where I live. What bothers me about their food choices lately are the chains, but everyone already knows that. I'm just assuming they're making more profit off the chains than they are from their own food outlets.

Marketing to a broader audience is more expensive, and can drive up your cost-per-acquisition marketing cost. The fall off on ROI is quick that way.

Maybe the problem with Cedar Point is that adding a new coaster would be pretty much redudant. Maverick reminds me of SFMM's Scream in that it is a different design than what they previously had, but it might be too similar to really expand the audience for CP. It has a launch element, is fast, inversion - but in the end, it doesn't look like a completely fresh experience. A better choice might have been a Furious Baco design, as that is new to the US.

Imo, they might have had better luck spending the 21 million on a dark ride experience - say something like in the vein of USH's Mummy's Revenge. Still a coaster, but something completely new to their local market. With the mega coaster parks, I think they are in the stages of diminishing returns if they keep installing lightly themed coasters that just re-arrange elements of what they have previously installed.

Good points there. I don't know what Kinzel's hang up is about dark rides unless it is the concern over the teen groups actions in them or just not having a theme to build one around. But, I think they could do something with Peanuts or the Nickelodeon brands in the form of a good dark ride experience.

MDOmnis, it was around 3 p.m. when the price was changed at the Midway Market. I wasn't aware that 3 p.m. or even 3:30 p.m. would be considered dinner-time anywhere in America. Considering that on an average day most people aren't home from work yet, and the kids aren't home from school either, I don't understand the logic of calling it dinner.

Well, I'm glad to hear that it has been a regular procedure and not just because it had rained and nothing was running. My friend especially was pushing my mind in that direction after he told me in RCT that you could charge more for umbrellas to make-up for the loss in revenue from a rainstorm.

DBJ, I'm right behind you on your thoughts for the most part. Maverick was a great and fun ride, but it's got several handicaps to marketing it and presenting it as something fresh:

1) The problem with building coasters that progressively get bigger is that if you want to build something significantly smaller, it's hard to get the people get excited.

2) Like a Hollywood screenplay where you get thirty-seconds to present your pitch, Maverick poses a problem. Try this on for contrast: Millennium Force--A three-hundred foot tall non-inverting rollercoaster that goes 93 mph.

And now Maverick: It has a hundred and five ft. tall lifthill. The drop is pitched at ninety-five degrees. It goes through two inversions and lots of twisted track. It has a launch-tunnel. There is lots of twisted track, and there are some waterbombs too.

3) In addition to the parts above, the word-of-mouth factor could be a problem as well. It's much easier to tell your friends about MF than it is Maverick.

There's no conspiracy. The price at Midway Market changes every day at that time, regardless of your definition of what dinner time is.

Maverick is packing them in. People are talking about it. They made the right decision.

By working at an amusement park, I'm exposed to many guests and employees who visit other amusement parks, including Cedar Point. When I ask guests and my coworkers how their trip to CP was, one of the first things out of their mouths is always about the food prices being outrageous. I'm not exaggerating.

Are you running a good business if the lasting impression on guests after their trip is a complaint regarding the price of food? I'd love to see someone explain how this is good for business, because I can't name any corporation that does exceedingly well with a negative image, save for necessities such as telecommunications and airlines. Going to Cedar Point is not a necessity.

My family and I went to Hersheypark instead of Six Flags America when the chain raised admission and parking to $15, and we might skip our annual trip to Cedar Point this year. Why? Because if we're going to spend a couple hundred dollars for a day out, we're going to do it somewhere that values our patronage. If Cedar Fair is going to treat its visitors like open wallets instead of valued guests, then they don't deserve our visit. Someone may argue that paying $30 more for a trip to the park isn't worth canceling it, but you know what? Cedar Fair needs to realize that despite being the dominant park in the area, they still need to earn their business.

Jeff, glad to hear that the Midway Market price-change was a coincidence and not just a ploy to make more money.

And I wasn't doubting that Maverick itself is packing them in. We saw the lines both days and/or waited in them (although we never waited later in the day with the non-resort guests). But what I didn't know is if it was translating to bigger numbers in the rest of the park.

The one theme that has been running through this thread is that a lot of enthusiasts are playing the "I'm going to show them not to mess with me and/or my family" card, if you will. In the end, sad to say, I think you're fairly insignificant to Cedar Fair's bottom line.

Since I realize that not everyone read my CP trip report, there was a funny (well to me anyway), but significant quote from one of the employees at the breakfast cafe at Breakers Express. She said to one of the guests "If you have any money left at the end of your trip, we're not doing our jobs right."

Since it was fairly early in the morning we had a chance to talk and I asked her to explain her statement. She said "Listen, you're on vacation. You're going to look back on this trip in February and remember the good time you had."

So in other words, spend a little bit extra money than you normally would, and when there's several inches of snow on the ground, and it's freezing cold outside that extra money you spent will soon be forgotten when you realize that you'd rather be at Cedar Point riding Maverick (or whatever) in the warm summer sun!

I'm kind of amazed that when the weather is rainy it is the first excuse Cedar Fair gives for poor attendance.; but when the weather is clear and sunny it is never attributed attendance. This summer has had absolutely beautiful weather; combined with a new coaster at Cedar Point, Cedar Fair should be blowing away last year's numbers. Will the company/shareholders believe one of the other typical excuses (gasoline prices, poor economy in Detroit/Cleveland, etc.) or will they start to realize there might be some other reason attendance is down.