Cedar Fair investing heavily in hotel improvements at Cedar Point

Customer service died when Americans decided that *price* was the only thing worrth taking into account in business transactions. The "race to the bottom" mentality took over....not easy to see a way out now.

You act like people get into brawls over worthless crap at Walmart.

^^Part of this is that bean counters can put a price on what it costs to give good customer service. However, figuring out what the return on giving good customer service is much more difficult.

I have to wonder if the overly-demanding customers and the general decline in proper customer service aren't related. It used to be that companies did a lot of basic stuff to make sure that to the degree that it was possible, customers had a good experience with the transaction. It's simple stuff that makes the most difference: Answer questions. Keep people informed. Make sure that the product meets or exceeds expectations. When something goes wrong, fix it. Treat the customer as though his issue is the most important thing you're dealing with at that moment.

I'm not entirely ready to blame the bean counters, because while it's hard to quantify the effect of good customer service, poor customer service is something you can measure, and you can watch the loss of customers. i do think that endemic poor service begets poor customers, though. I think there's a whole generation of consumers out there who believe that the only way to get satisfaction...largely because of a decade of poor experiences...is to get angry with the person who should be trying to help.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I know people seem to love or hate Ikea, but it's fascinating to me how they take a potentially awful experience, crawling around a giant warehouse, and make it somehow tolerable, and even kind of fun. They have cheap food to buy, either before you start, or in between the showroom and the marketplace. They offer same-day delivery of your big crap if your car is too small (extra charge, but not a bad deal). If your stuff is missing parts, they actually have them right in the store, and if the store is too far away, they will mail them to you. They have more food at the checkouts. Much of their stuff is infinitely customizable. I've heard people tell great stories with their kitchens, too.

Disney drops science on you though, when it comes to customer service. Think about what they do: They remove barriers to having a good time, often with 70,000+ people on the property.

RideMan said:

I have to wonder if the overly-demanding customers and the general decline in proper customer service aren't related.

I think there's a whole generation of consumers out there who believe that the only way to get satisfaction...largely because of a decade of poor experiences...is to get angry with the person who should be trying to help.

I think one simple fact can explain it from both sides - more people than ever are unapologetic assholes.

Seriously.

I also think it's interesting that the second we got talking about bad service here it immediately went to the corporate level - talking bean counters and business entities. I think it's happening at the individual level. It's not like every business out there doesn't have standards and expectations, training and procedure.

People just suck anymore - that's my guess.

Add to that what Gator touched on - somehow we got to the point where cheap is all that matters. That give less incentive to offer service. Even if service sucks, the price is right. And the bigger the business, the less they need the individual. If I started getting consistently crappy burgers at McDonald's and an unapologetic attitude when bringing it to their attention and then vowed to never return - it wouldn't matter one bit. McDonald's doesn't have to offer me good service - billions and billions of burgers are going to sell regardless. That applies to a lot of businesses anymore.

So much so that it's just easier to train employees to shrug and offer to gve money back.

How many stores price match? How many hotels have 100% satisfaction guarantees. How many 'no hassle' returns do you see at stores?

Businesses offer service through policy rather than relying on their asshole employees.

And that leads to overzealous customers who bitch and moan for no other reason than to take advantage of this. Why not make a little stink if it gets you something for nothing? Price is all that matters, right?

I wish I could share the stories I get from my wife. You'd crap yourself at what people will say, do and complain about in hopes of saving a few bucks. The best I can do is paraphrase a recent email she received (typed in all caps, mind you):

---
I just wanted to let you know, I'll probably never come to this hotel again! Everything about my stay was great - the room was clean and well appointed, the staff was friendly at every turn and the pool and hot tub were wonderful. It was your free food. Some of it wasn't up to standards. I complained to the cook about the food and she asked what she could do to fix it, but I had already filled up on the other foods. I could have went across the street (to a low-end buffet style restaurant) and eaten better! I know what food is supposed to look and taste like, I used to work at a restaurant!
---

Seriously. Like I said, I'm paraphrasing. But the gist was that everything was great except for one of the items at the free dinner. And when he complained, the staff offered to fix it, but he didn't want anything else because he had already filled up on the other food items available.

And what did he get for this complaint?

Corporate sent him a $50 certificate for a future stay.

That's why a lot of customers are assholes. There's little incentive not to be. If all you're worried about is saving a buck or two, there's no reason not to try when businesses offer service in terms of policy.

No one on either end has to care.

Lord Gonchar said:

Businesses offer service through policy rather than relying on their asshole employees.

I think that's a fair point, that policy dictated by management/corporate is essentially the reason customer service seems so lacking these days. I'm not sure I'm willing to entirely blame poor employees for it, although I'll point out that these employers get what they pay for most of the time. The fact that often times nobody in the chain of command, whether it be managers, customer support call centers, etc. has any authority to correct situations tells me it's a little deeper than simply not trusting the people on the front line. Personally, I blame the bean counters, but that's mostly just a hunch backed up by anecdotal evidence.

The worst part is that we've devolved into a place where poor customer service is practically a universal standard that consumers have just grown to accept. If everyone is doing it, there's no incentive to spend the money or effort to try to make your company better, so why bother?

Not that this is related to the few posts above but part of the reason we delivered bad customer service at the resorts when I worked at the Point was because of Corporate/Management policy with regards to delegating authority and empowering the staff. In a nutshell...there was no empowerment.

Little complaints often became big complaints because of the process. In essence, the guest comes to the front desk to complain about something and the clerk at the desk is directed to try and satisfy the guest but without really doing or offering anything. Apologize and hope they go away was the practice. Now, I'm not talking about the simplest things like a dirty room. Clerk calls housekeeping and that generally solves the problem.

I'm talking about bigger issues like a guest not being able to check into their room at 3:00pm because the room isn't clean yet (because we were so short staffed). So, guest complains to the desk clerk who really can't do anything but apologize. Guest asks for the front office manager who apologizes but can't do anything. Guest asks for the hotel manager (me) who can't really do anything without authorization so I track down the Accommodations Director because at this point the guest went from being disappointed to upset to downright angry as they have been passed along.

Now, if the Director is in a good mood maybe he authorizes me to do somethign but if he is in a bad mood maybe he tells me to hold the line and at some point the guest gets into their room but not before their entire vacation got off to a pretty nasty start. Something you just know they are going to remember.

Instead, even the line clerk who started off the chain of events with the guest knows that just a little peace offering would have satisfied the guest. The anger only came about because the guest kept getting passed off. At the very least the Front Office Manager should have been empowered to offer the guest some discounted Twilight tickets into the park so they could leave their luggage, go enjoy the park, and come back. Or maybe a discounted meal at the restaurant. The bottom line is that we were in the wrong as the room wasn't ready at 3:00.

That discount would have been a lot cheaper for us than the guest never coming back, or worse, spreading the word about their bad experience. I expect that Ouimet has implemented empowerment as one of the most significant changes since Kinzel's departure and this is less of an issue now. But, under Kinzel, all of the staff was gun shy...and for good reason. He was a power freak.

Gonch ... I had to laugh at your last post. I traveled 50+ days for business this year (more next), and usually stay at Fairfield or Hampton Inns. I often check TripAdvisor if I'm not familiar with with the city to check the location and make sure the hotel's not old and run down.

I can't tell you how many people complain about the FREE breakfasts in their reviews:

"The hotel was lovely, the staff was great, but the complimentary breakfast was horrible. All they had was fruit, cereal, muffins, bagels, pastry, milk, juice, scrambled eggs, sausage - and you even had to make your own waffles. For $79, they should deliver Belgian waffles and made to order omelets directly to my bed. STAY AWAY!"

Slightly paraphrased - but not an uncommon review.

wahoo skipper said
Little complaints often became big complaints because of the process.


That's why I liked working at Universal a decade ago. I was just a ride attendant, but when someone came to me with a complaint, I was allowed to figure out what to do to fix the problem and do whatever it took to fix it.

For example, I was told by my manager to move all the baby stroller that were around the entrance to the ride to the stroller parking area. It began to look like rain, and most of the strollers were taken by their owners/renters, be there were a few left. A few hours later, a family cam up to me, and the mother and father were furious of what I had done, as their stroller and clothes in the stroller were soaked.

I apologized and immediately figured out what to do. I took them next door to the JP store, and got them some t-shirts to change into, and ponchos to wear while it was raining, and found them some clean towels to use, no charge. I had to fill out some quick paperwork, and it was theirs to keep.

That was a big one, but I did things like that for the customers all the time. It was great for the guests because they had their problem solved as quick as possible without getting all kinds of managers and supervisors involved. I wonder if they still allow their employees to do that?

Right now I work part-time at the customer service desk at a retail store. I like to think that I provide excellent customer service, and I am definitely not an "asshole" (Gonch lol). Most of my customers are not "assholes" either (Again, Gonch, lol). Most customers see how hard I am working to come up with a solution, and are understanding if I can not help them the way they wanted. I do get a few angry customers each day, but that's because what they want is very unreasonable and nothing I am allowed to do to help them is enough. When people get angry and scream and act stupid, I'll usually not even consider bending the rules. It's the people who make me want to help them who get a better solution to their problem.

About bean counters, I get paid way above the average at my store, but I would love to see my department get some more help as far as hours go. We are always bare-bones staffed, and sometimes, especially this time of the year, I have to work as fast as a bartender on a Saturday night, and people may have to wait in line before getting service. That can elevate their frustration, and cause us both extra grief. That's is my only complaint.

JOz99 said:

Gonch ... I had to laugh at your last post.

I can't tell you how many people complain about the FREE breakfasts in their reviews...

Yeah, it gets silly.

In fairness, it's not generally an invalid complaint though. It's totally ok to say the food sucks. It's totally in line to bitch about it if it's not up to par. It's 'free' like the stuff at Holiday World is 'free' - that is to say a more corrct term is "included" with your stay.

But this guy filled up on all the things he liked, complained about the one he didn't, was offered a solution then wrote an email and got rewarded for it. He used the service and then complained about it.

He got $50 for wonking about one 'side' item offered during his otherwise stellar (by his own admission) hotel stay.

And things like this aren't even the worst of it. It's just a recent one that I could recall off the top of my head.

LostKause said:I like to think that I provide excellent customer service, and I am definitely not an "asshole" (Gonch lol).

Nope. You're definitely not. I agree.

But I'm sure your place of employment has more than a few on the payroll. You know who they are. You wonder how they stay employed. They don't seem to offer anything productive to situations. They're just show up for a paycheck. They do as little as possible. Those people are assholes.

I do get a few angry customers each day, but that's because what they want is very unreasonable and nothing I am allowed to do to help them is enough.

Yeah. These folks are assholes too.

And just like that, you have asshole-on-asshole stupidity occuring in the businessplace.

I've had some generic issues at times that I kind of just roll with, but when things are really messed up, I don't want something for free, I want what I originally was after.

For example, I had a bad experience at Royal Pacific at Universal Orlando in 2011. We called in advance for a crib, and it wasn't there when we arrived (after traveling with a toddler from Seattle). Three hours after arriving, we still didn't have one. I was pissed. Simon wasn't even a year old yet, and all things considered, travelled pretty well to that point. You can still imagine how much that sucked.

They offered us free breakfast for the rest of our stay, but then it wasn't the rest of our stay, it was one day. They obviously weren't receptive to me complaining about that, but it was kind of a pattern after previous visits. I do not have a high opinion of Loews as a hotel operator. How they even got their 4-diamond ratings is a mystery to me.

Found this amusing article and thought it related nicely to this thread.

Jeff said:

Stayed in Breakers Tower this year. The room was adequate and relatively clean, but I swear I think it was the original furniture. It just felt so old.

I wouldn't doubt it. I stayed at Sandcastle for the first time in 2007 and my room was so early 1990s. With dated furniture sitting on warn-out carpet and surrounded by pealing wallpaper, I had fun writing my critique of the experience in the guest survey. They must have received the same response from many other guests, hence the 2008-09 renovation.