CCI Bankruptcy

Monday, April 5, 2004 8:22 PM
I was reading over on RCDB about CCI's New Mexico Rattler, and how they went bankrupt during construction and essentially abandoned it. Why did CCI go bankrupt? I thought their rides were generally very good coasters? I understand Vekoma's and Arrow's bankruptcies but not CCI...
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Monday, April 5, 2004 8:30 PM
I'm no expert on the situation, but CCI's coasters were dirt cheap. I'd say that was one of the reasons. It doesn't have anything to do with their coasters being good or bad, because they were generally good and recieved much praise. Parks knew they could get a great product for a ridiculously low price. *** Edited 4/6/2004 12:31:39 AM UTC by BullGuy***
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Monday, April 5, 2004 8:31 PM
I can't speak for CCI specificly, but...

Just because a company makes a great product and is well received doesn't mean they will be profitable. Many companies start out great but in the long run fail because of the lack of solid business sense. A lack of understanding and execution of simple and complex economic models is often the underlying issue. Supply and Demand Curves, How contracts are written, how the client is billed, and most importantly, making decisions at the margin (just to name a few).

I'm not saying CCI had issues with this, as I am unsure of the details of their fate. But, the reasons above are often why a seemingly successful business goes belly-up.

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Monday, April 5, 2004 8:37 PM
I'm not so sure it was a bankruptcy issue. Wasn't it something to do with Denise and Larry divorcing and them no longer wanting to run the company? Then Denise came out and said she would work alongside Stan Checketts in their "to-be" wood coaster department. I remember reading the article when it happened.
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Monday, April 5, 2004 8:38 PM
BullGuy that sounds like the piece of the puzzle I was missing. Didn't know they were really cheap! Danimales- I know a great product doesn't make a great company. Even great ideas don't make great company. Look at Arrow and Vekoma. I credit them for trying some wild new ideas but fault them for failing at them pretty miserably.
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Monday, April 5, 2004 9:20 PM
Think about what Charles Dinn created:
Dinn Coasters
CCI (his daughter)
GCI formed from one of their engineers
S&S wood coaster division (Denise Dinn after CCI)
Gravity Group (former CCI engineers)

Kinda cool.

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Monday, April 5, 2004 9:40 PM
Denise Dinn does not build or design coasters for S&S. She is not an engineer. In fact, no one is really sure what she does there as far as I can tell.

From what I know about CCI (other than I ended up hosting their Web site for free) is that there were two serious problems. The first was that they were giving away rides. Consider the Villain went for something around $3 million. Compare that to something from GCI, where I can't remember them building a ride for less than $7 million in recent memory.

Then consider that Dinn had a reputation for not paying her vendors on time, or delivering product on time. I know less about this, but I remember having some conversations at IAAPA with certain park owners/managers that were less than happy with her performance in that regard.

The real brain trust for CCI lives on as The Gravity Group. They'll have their first big project opening next year, and I don't doubt they'll deliver a great ride. Hopefully they'll have the business sense to do it right as well. Obviously Holiday World trusts them since they've been working with them.

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Monday, April 5, 2004 10:22 PM
Oazark Wildcat was $4 Million, pretty cheap, but that is a pretty small woodie. Considering that Raven and Legend were built together for a grand total of $5 mill.
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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 7:19 AM

bigkirby said:
Think about what Charles Dinn created:
Dinn Coasters
CCI (his daughter)
GCI formed from one of their engineers
S&S wood coaster division (Denise Dinn after CCI)
Gravity Group (former CCI engineers)

Kinda cool.


Until your remember Mean Streak...

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 9:19 AM
Wasn't some of the inexpensive cost of CCI coasters offset by the need for maintance for certain CCI projects in following years? Not sure if is had an impact on the company's bottom line or not though.

*** Edited 4/6/2004 1:22:16 PM UTC by JWolg***

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 9:21 AM

tambo said:

bigkirby said:
Think about what Charles Dinn created:
Dinn Coasters
CCI (his daughter)
GCI formed from one of their engineers
S&S wood coaster division (Denise Dinn after CCI)
Gravity Group (former CCI engineers)

Kinda cool.


Until your remember Mean Streak...


How about Hercules?

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 9:23 AM
Jeff is right and if im not misstaken, One of those who lost money in their bankruptcy.

The company many times did not pay vendors and often constructed their next coaster based upon being paid for a previous one causing delays.

Shoddy business practices, Thats about the whole reason.

PTC was owed several thousand dollars and this was the main reason their trains were not being used unless the park purchased them outright.

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 10:00 AM

Charles Nungester said:
PTC was owed several thousand dollars and this was the main reason their trains were not being used unless the park purchased them outright.

PTC refused to do business with CCI because of this. CCI used Gerstlauer trains after that.

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 4:19 PM
That's a shame, too. I hate to bash, but I've ridden a few too many CCI's that would be INCREDIBLE had it not been for the G-Trains. Villain and Boss come to mind immediately.
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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 4:28 PM
I was not specifically referring to the Dinn coasters, but the companies that got spun off from his work.
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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 5:26 PM
Actually Great Coasters was formed from Mike Boodley (designer) and Clair Hain (job site foreman).

Clair has been building wooden coasters since the mid 80's. I'm pretty sure his first job was relocating the Phoenix. He was with the Dinn corp., then with CCI. So he's built quite a few wooden coasters.

I'm not sure of Mike entire background but I know he set a record riding the CI Cyclone back in 1976.

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 6:23 PM
Coasterpunk, do you know what Mike Boodley is doing these days? I also always wondered why he left and what he is currently doing.
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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 6:44 PM
He is semi retired now, but he still works with GCI designing rides.

I got to ride with him a few times on Thunderhead when I was there a few weeks ago.

To me it really shows when people are doing somthing they loved since they were kids. *** Edited 4/6/2004 10:46:35 PM UTC by coasterpunk***

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Tuesday, April 6, 2004 7:01 PM
Thanks coasterpunk! Yeah I didn't know he was still involved with GCI at all.
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