Carnival flats vs Amusement Park flats in USA

I happened to be at a carnival recently and it dawned on me the significant difference in operations of flat rides at fairs vs. amusement parks. Classic flats like Musik Express/Super Himalaya, Matterhorn/Bobs, etc. typical are designed with speed options of 1-5; operators start at 1 and as the ride cycle builds up speed it’s like shifting to the next gear. Clearly fairs/carnivals are utilizing the full max speed cycle, yet it’s evident amusement parks are blocking cycles beyond 3 or 4 which ruins the experience.

Does anyone work in the parks that can confirm the ride experience is neutered to slower speeds? Any reason why? Himalaya at full speed is crazy fun like a coaster, I would think parks like Six Flags would want guests to enjoy it at full speed.

I wouldn’t know, I don’t do carnival flats. Even if they have flawless safety records I don’t want to risk my life on a piece of machinery that gets disassembled, hauled in a truck somewhere and reassembled over and over again. It’s a far different life for that machine then being assembled and disassembled at most once a year with some parts imbedded in concrete and never being touched again. Even with the greatest of care, assembling and disassembling stresses the metal over time.

When I was a kid I would always be disappointed that the flats at Cedar Point and Geauga Lake didn't run at the same bat**** crazy speeds they did at the local fairs.

Now I'll get on a flat at a Cedar Fair park because I know the speed will be slower and it will have a relatively short cycle. But I can't imagine getting on a Scrambler or
Music Express at full speed on a ridiculously long cycle.

I would imagine the rides are programmed the way they are at major parks for safety, rider comfort and also to help with the longevity of the ride. Years ago I remember at a Winter Chill Out someone asking whh Cedar Downs didn't use the max speed feature and they mentioned that in addition to safety, it has helped keep the ride in far better shape than its two counterparts.

Go on YouTube and watch the videos of flats and thrill rides on the German funfair circuit. (Which is in full swing right now) Holy crap. There’s usually 5 minutes at a leisurely pace then a few more at full throttle where the speeds can be insane. Then it backs down to a less intense speed for a minute then goes back up again even harder. All of this is accompanied by the jock’s banter, encouraging riders to scream for more. Music, lighting, and smoke effects add to the fun. There are several Break Dance rides that look like torture, there’s a Matterhorn-style ride that’s called Ice Jet (Sno Jet maybe?) that sends the sleds nearly upside down on the hills. Top Spins run the wildest cycles. Ghost Rider (Huss Booster) is worth a look- we have none here in the US. The rides are absolutely beautiful and well-presented with nary a light bulb out of place. You get the picture, and the vids are easy to find. So if you’re looking for a new rabbit hole…
One crucial difference I find between carnival rides and park rides is the ticket. At carnivals rides are flashier, louder, and faster for a reason- they want your business. Wrist bands exist but so do individual tickets. 6 bucks a spin is common. (6-8 Euros in Germany) In many spots the rides are independently owned and compete with each other, trying for the highest gross. Amusement parks don’t operate under the weight of internal competition, they get us at the gate. Which is why you see elderly flats void of the original flash (I’m looking at you, Cedar Point) and nobody cares. And they can be slow as hell, Brett’s already given us good reasons for that and he’s not wrong. .
Speaking of CP, their biggest influx of flats happened for the Centennial season which was 1970. Rides like Super Himalaja, Calypso, Bayern Kurve, and Schwabinchen made their debut and those rides were speedy back then. Especially Himalaja, which burned out a motor the season I worked there. It was so fast, like, state fair style. I’m 99% sure those rides were used and suspected that Mickey Hughes, a well-known ride broker, was behind that huge acquisition. (Ten new rides for the centennial). They were definitely European in nature, (Monster was brand new and domestic, from Oregon so was an exception) and they reminded me of pieces that went to Palisades, but I’ve never been exactly sure where they came from.
Similar cases can be made for parks like Kennywood. Short cycles and clean, “safe” rides were the order there. Many of their flats through the years were leased and either turned back after a time or eventually acquired by the park. But slow, short cycles have always been the case for as long as I’ve been going there.
Lastly, keep in mind that most flats at amusement parks were originally portable but are dressed up for a more permanent setting. Maybe the trailer bases are gone, but many are still visible below the ride. It all depends on operator discretion and how they want to spend their money.
I know we’re a group with coaster emphasis but I’ve always loved flats of all kinds and during my lifetime have paid keen attention to what parks and carnivals own and how they run them. A deep disappointment for me is how I’ve “aged out” of the most dynamic flat rides- I might try a new exciting one once but I’m usually sorry. Sadly.

This post is reminding of a ride that I both loved and was freaked-the-hell-out by. In Defiance Ohio where I grew up we had the "Thee Rivers Festival" every summer, and that brought a nice collection of your travelling rides. But my nemesis was something called, "The Caterpillar".

(it helps if you read the rest of this post in the voice of the narrator from the film "Stand by Me"...the older version of Gordie)

I don't think I have ever seen a ride like this since, but it went like this: Riders sat in their own car, connected in a circle like a Himalaya only in single-file. If my memory is right I'm guessing maybe 30 people could ride at once. Similar classic flat-ride path in the circle with a couple dips.

6'4", 109 pound, cigarette-smoking ride-op with a 2 foot-beard gives you a foreboding head-nod and a semi-toothless smile as you question your life-choices and get into the car. Buttons are pushed.

It starts out fine. Holding on to the little seat belt while you spin around....but then the nightmare started. Halfway through the ride cycle a canopy encases the entire collection of riders (imagine a little canopy suddenly covering you.) Complete darkness as the ride picks up an insane amount of speed. Borderline ludicrous. I'm sure it was fine but I swear to god my 10 year old brain told me I was moments away from having that canopy being the only thing between life and death.

Then the canopy opens, the ride slows down, and you kiss the ground.

And share a bro-nod with the ride-op who most certainly could have taken your life.

Canobie Lake Park has a Caterpillar with a functional canopy, only one in the country I believe. Very cool, doubt it was as fast as the carnival circuit, but still very cool.

^^ Aw, ya weenie.
Caterpillar is an old, old flat with the first one showing up at Coney Island in 1925. It became quite popular and at one time there was rarely a park that didn’t have one. About every park in Ohio had one, including Cedar Point and Geauga. Geauga’s lasted til the 80’s I think. I never saw CP’s. My first one was at Camden Park and it lasted until early 2000’s (maybe) and it finally went in a building, like a homemade Himalaya. It was called Hot Cat, which always made me laugh. Travis can help us with those deets. They were made in North Tonawanda, NY by Allen Hershell (Mad Mouse, Twister, etc). Knoebels had one, from Lakemont, that eventually went in the dark as Cosmotron. (Now it’s an oh-so inferior Wisdom Himalaya.)
There are two originals left. One is at Canobie Lake and I ran straight for it when I visited there. It’s beautiful and operates perfectly with the original canopy and air fan below the track. The other is at Heritage Park, dedicated to preserving antique rides and they have some real and rare relics, like the last Lindy Loop. Interested? Get to Alberta Canada.
I’m wondering, given your young age, if perhaps you didn’t ride a newer version made by Mack. Its name is Raupen Bahn and has caterpillars on the side of the cars. It’s an undulating ride but more like a standard 3 hill Himalaya. There’s a canopy on those as well. I saw one at Myrtle Beach Pavilion, rest its soul, and there’s one that travels still.
There were some traveling original Caterpillars but most lived at parks. The carnival that came through Defiance may have had one. Am I safe in assuming the carnival company’s name escapes you? I love hearing memories like that but I assure you as an adult you’d survive just fine. I think they’re still fun. I know you have busy summers but a trip to Boston, Canobie, and SFNE would be a nice trip for your fam.

Thanks to Millennium and RCMAC I came across this picture that definitely brings me back to Defiance:

I only remember riding it alone, and that's a lot of seat to move around in as a tiny person, which probably made it scarier. The soundtrack on the banks of the Maumee River was "Paradise City" (GNR).

I found a video of the ride at Canobie, and the OP (Gunkey Monkey) has to be correct. We were full throttle.

RCMAC:

I saw one at Myrtle Beach Pavilion, rest its soul, and there’s one that travels still.

I think that one is being set up without the canopy at Niagara Amusement Park. I have seen a few walk-through vids lately and it does look like the one from Pavilion.

Reithoffer Shows travels with one called Arctic Blast, which sadly does not have the canopy either.

Geauga Lake's was mentioned earlier and I seem to recall from 1976-1980 they had 2 caterpillar-style rides- the original and one called SuperCat, which was I believe from Sobema and featured a more European Himalaya appearance.

And finally, I believe Ray Cammack Shows out west has a Mack or Bertazzon (?) Super Himalaya called Rave Wave that has a canopy.

Ahh. I rode that Arctic Blast at the Florida State Fair a few years ago. I recognized it as a Raupen Bahn so I was anxious to try it. It seems Mack felt the need to reconfigure the track of their standard Himalaya, and I felt the slight difference did them no favors. The three hills were tight, and the same height. The front half was a wide steady curve. So the riders had a jostling ride across the back and a smooth ride across the front. They ran a long-ish ride cycle and I found it to be kind of uncomfortable.
Thanks for that info. I’m interested in what’s happening at Niagra for sure.

Kennywood had a what I believe to be a Spillman Caterpillar with a fully functional canopy and the upward facing fan under the track. I remember riding it with the young lady that ultimately became my second wife. It wound up out at Idlewild and has been stored for a number of years.

For all you youngsters, THIS is what a flat ride is capable of. Musik Express operating at full speed forward, horn going off, and reverse operations for a phenomenal ride experience:

Parks, especially Six Flags, don’t need to spend hundreds of millions for new attractions (especially when billions in debt.) They need to operate the ones they have already correctly. 😉

PS. Have you ever seen anything with a lighting package this gorgeous in a seasonal park? It’s stupid simple but it creates excitement and fun at night!

Yes, Cedar Point's Million Dollar Midway in the early 1970's. The finest rides that Schwarzkopf and Mack had to offer then. The Giant Wheel had nearly 33,000 incandescent lights on it. The Schwabinchen about half that, along with the Bayrne Kurve and Super Himalaya. You didn't need the street lights that rimmed the midway, the rides themselves provided enough light that it could be seen across the bay.

Then the banker's got involved with the company, and the extra bling that the rides came with went by the wayside.

Also, how often are parks open during the dark hours? Frequently the longer hours are during the longest days. Night rides are so hard to come by. I am in the camp that wishes parks didn't open until lunchtime and then remained open until 10-12 at night. But that isn't exactly the family friendly hours either now is it?

The Florida State Fair has several Himalaya-style rides. That Super Himalaya is a Bertazzon ride and they are indeed very flashy. They also have a Reverchon Himalaya, which I really like the looks of. For reference, Kentucky Kingdom has a beautiful version and WoF had one years ago. I’m not sure if it’s still with us. There’s also a Mack ride called Hit in 2000 which is my favorite. It’s super fast. It was looking rather beat up for a while and I understand they (Wade Shows) invested some money to glam it up. The ride jocks are fun there, they will ride the running boards at the start of the ride then hop off when it starts going fast. It’s a huge centerpiece ride and always has a queue in the evenings. They also a have Wisdom Himalaya which is terrible one-trailer version. It’s all lights (blinding LED) and no ride. Add in the Arctic Blast and you get a lot of Musik Express action down there in Tampa.

The Bertazzon Musik Express is really the best, it has such a European carnival feel to it. I believe it is Mack Rides who created the traditional Matterhorn flat ride which, with full scenery and lighting, is phenomenal too. Don't even get me started about the Break Dance rides in Europe, insanely cool.

As it gets hotter and hotter during day time hours in the summer, nighttime is where it will be in the future for outdoor entertainment. Are the parks thinking about that?!

RCMAC mentioned the Wisdom-made Himalaya, and I totally agree that it is awful. Himalaya rides have “hills”. Wisdom’s has like a stick on both sides of the platform that creates an uncomfortable bump as the ride goes around. I understand why it’s popular with showmen as it is a one trailer piece, but it simply cannot compare with a Mack, Bertazzon, or Reverchon. I just saw Strates Shows Reverchon Himalaya at the Erie County Fair last week and they completely renovated it and it looks fantastic. They replaced the mirror ball in the center with an led-video “sphere” that shows skiing footage. It’s a neat effect.

Majestic Rides makes a one trailer Musik Express also with slightly larger hills, but it’s still not really that great.

Hot Cat at Camden Park didn’t have a canopy, but I’m pretty sure I rode one with a canopy at Idlewild in PA.

I loved Hot Cat. It always had big globs of grease in the moving parts, like most rides at Camden Park. They played hard rock during the ride. I would bring a cassette tape of my favorite songs and ask the ride operator to play it. He’d be fine with Motley Crue, Ratt, poison, ect. But he would refuse to play Slayer and Ozzy, for whatever reason.

Good memories.