California Screamin' trains collide, dozens sustain minor injuries

For those who don't know, Disneyland puts on a massive nightly fireworks show. If these fireworks had to be trucked daily, could you imagine the insurance costs? Fireworks are suppose to be stored in the desert and transported when needed. Disneyland is the only one in Orange County that needs that much fireworks. Where did you get the idea he doesn't work there anymore? Read the article.

While of course this accident is unfortunate, I have to wonder if it was national news simply because it was Disney.

When I worked for Cedar Point, Millennium Force played "bumper trains" once or twice a year.

Raptor passed two trains through the station onto the Lift Hill...

PLCs and prox sensors get confused, false positives...

Of course given the history with Big Thunder, who knows whats going on.

The most current OC article, which I linked to earlier states..

"Helgason, 49, of Orange, holds federal and state licenses to manufacture pyrotechnics for the movie industry. He also has worked for Disneyland."

The wording leads me to believe that he no longer works for Disney. Even if he does still do work for Disney, it doesn't make it Disney's fault that he is illegally storing fireworks in the neighborhood.

Yes, Disney does have an incredible fireworks show happening nightly (I saw it twice a couple weeks ago.) But they haven't been implicated in the matter in anyway. It is suspicious coincidence that the fireworks had been cancelled for a few nights following the fireworks discovery, but official word from Disney is that the cancellations were due to wind. Any other explanation is pure conspiracy theory.

*** This post was edited by Rihard 7/30/2005 9:13:35 PM ***

What does wind have to do with fireworks? I understand how it might close down a rollercoaster, but fireworks that are shot in the air with lots of thrust? That seems quite questionable...

Slug, Disney isn't responsible for what a THIRD PARTY, even one that may do work for Disney, Does. Period. They aren't in anyway responsible.

Back to this, first off, the Intamin slam was just a joke, so I don't want anyone thinking I'm blaming anybody. I still haven't read a definitive on what happened, and who was responsible. Just some harmeless Intamin bashing;).

But, yeah, I still dont' understand why some people would think this is 'understandable' because they run more than 2 or 3 trains. It should never happen, which is why they have so many darn blocks. Someone else said 11, I think. If they were indeed running in Manual Mode, I'd be interested in why.

Ok, so if it was in manual mode...wouldn't that be considered an operator problem?

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Kyle Fobe

What does wind have to do with fireworks? I understand how it might close down a rollercoaster, but fireworks that are shot in the air with lots of thrust? That seems quite questionable...

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Wind direction plays a very important part of a fire work show, especially one as technical and elaborate as the one being conducted by disney. If the wind isn't blowing or blowing in the direction of the spectators during the show, you wouldn't be able to see anything or enjoy it because the show will be ruined by the smoke from the explosions.

Yeah....while I am not a fireworks expert, I have spoken to several fireworks folks we have contracted with over the years and wind plays a very important role in the show. Too much wind and even no wind is bad, and different wind speeds can affect the production of the show, quality of the mortor explosions and can even limit the types of pyrotechnics used.....generally ideal wind speed is around 10MPH, from side to side....

And of course there is the safety aspect. What goes up, must come down, and fall out zones (usually down wind) have to be safe and free of spectators. So yeah, wind is very important....

*** This post was edited by Hanging n' Banging 7/31/2005 11:55:34 AM ***

This ride has had very little maintainance over the past 4 years due to DCA's poor attandance. Splash Mountain has been down atleast twice over the past 4 years for major refurbishment, not Screamin'. Not saying it's Disney's fault, but you have to wonder.

Disneyland's Splash Mountain is 16 years old. Screamin' is 4 years old. Even if a coaster operates 365 days a year, it should not require a major refurbishment after 4 years of operation. Just because they didn't close it down for extended periods of time doesn't mean that it "has had very little maintenance". Don't talk about things that you obviously know nothing about.

*** This post was edited by PhantomTails 7/31/2005 6:28:40 PM ***

The last major downtime for splash mountain was due to the boat up grades and the unforseen compatabilty problems that they had with the existing layout

As far as manual mode goes, I guess that parks do do it. At Cedar Point TTD was having problems so they would say "Clear, trains moving in manual", and resulted in one train being launched every 10 minutes, but it worked. Luckily on that ride, no matter what the brakes can't fail because they're in a fixed position. Sure you can collide at unload but you're going so slow it doesn't make a difference.

Even while running in manual/maintenance mode, the control system should not allow a brake to release if the block ahead is occupied. Every coaster I've worked is like that at least. Like people have said, it seems like bad programming.

The current fireworks show is quite different from anything there in the past. The fireworks are all around you, shot from inside areas of the park, off rooftops, castle, even the Matterhorn. As such, the need for control is that much more critical. As it is, many rides and walkways are shut down during the show for safety reasons.

So as a result, just a little bit of wind can and does cancel this show. Disneyland sends it's balloons up nightly to measure the wind. Saw them Thur night up the entire time while they decided if the wind would calm down enough. The show was cancelled Friday 7/22 Saturday 7/23 and Thursday 7/28 which was pretty breezy while I was there. Nothing funny going on. Although they really should have backup plans in place and put on SOME sort of show for people. To not have fireworks on a busy summer Friday and Saturday night isn't real good either.

A few years ago the 4th of July fireworks in my town suffered from a miscalculation on the wind. The result was hot debris falling on spectators. Obviously wind is critical to prevent this type of incident.