B&M Transitions

Tuesday, October 1, 2002 5:15 PM
Everyone can agree that one reason B&M roller coasters are so smooth are because of their transitions. A lot of people have mentioned that B&M transitions are different from Arrow or Vekoma ( Besides the fact that they are smoother. ) For example, if on a B&M coaster you were about to go into a right helix, the track would bank to the left slightly right before it banks right in order to enter the helix. Why does B&M do this, and why does it make their transitions better? I don't understand why it doesn't create a "trick-track effect" and make the ride rougher.

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Intelligence is a God given gift: Know how to use it.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 5:51 PM

Well, that's not exactly the key to the smoothness. In fact, I'm not so sure the changes of direction have anything to do with the smoothness, but are for a thrill. B&M really make the most of that effect on the standups. (They said they think it's the most exciting part of the standups)

Yes, you are right, the transitions are better, but one of the keys is that their turns aren't based on a fixed radius. Add the wheels making solid contact with the rails, and you have a smooth coaster!

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- Peabody

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 5:53 PM
Does he always have to be right? I agree though.

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Miami sucks, there are no coasters. Just beaches.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 6:08 PM
B&M's coasters don't bank around the track spine like some Vekomas do (X-Flight's barrel rolls come to mind). Everything is around the rider's heartline, so it is smoother. (Help me I don't know what I am talking about!)
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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 6:43 PM
Arrow coasters are rough because of the way the trains are designed. Look at any old Arrow coaster. The wheels don't hug the track like B&M and Intamin coasters. There's usually an inch or two between the track and the upstop wheel or plate.

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Brent Haley
Cedar Point Gemini Crew '02

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:01 PM

Craig the Coaster Freak said:
Everything is around the rider's heartline, so it is smoother. (Help me I don't know what I am talking about!)

My thoughts exactly. Besides B&M, other designers/manufacturers like Intamin seem to be catching on as well...although I sometimes wonder if it's more attributed to Werner Stengel's influential designs for these companies. Anyways, they curve the track carefully so that the center of rotation is closest to the heartline of the riders.

Sometimes I think it looks weird when I'm riding a B&M and approaching an element/making a turn, and the oncoming track appears to curve unnaturally...but then the train makes its way through that 'unnatural looking' section and glides through it with a very natural, fluid feeling. Hence, the focus on the heartline. I don't think that B&M started out so much this way, but it seems that with each coaster they make, they further perfect this sense of 'heartline'. And, as others have mentioned, the constant contact of the wheels to the track (and being on the outside of the track) with no hunting add to the awesome smoothness of B&Ms (and likewise with the more recent Intamins that I've been on).

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Warning: This message was composed on a computer in a household where peanuts and peanut products are served.

*** This post was edited by SFGAmLover on 10/1/2002. ***

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:04 PM

SFGAmLover said: (and being on the outside of the track)


Actually, that has nothing to do with smoothness. Ever ridden a Togo?

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- Peabody

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:29 PM

Here's how I understand it: Wheels that are on the outside of the track can be in constant contact with the track. Each set of wheels on a B&M can yaw on its own axis. If the wheels were on the inside of the track, this would not be possible (Arrow, etc.) because all the wheels could yaw one way and the car would 'fall through'. But I won't comment about Togo smoothness (or lack thereof), as I have never ridden one.... but they don't look too comfy. :)

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Warning: This message was composed on a computer in a household where peanuts and peanut products are served.

*** This post was edited by SFGAmLover on 10/1/2002. ***

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:36 PM

In addition to the spring-loaded wheels, the curves are generally parabolic, not fixed radius, which prevents abrupt turns.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"There's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, when it's all in your mind. You gotta let go." - Ghetto, Supreme Beings of Leisure

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 7:41 PM
I agree with everything written in this post. Arrow, Vekoma, and even Togo seem to have a problem when there coasters get older. I can clearly remember my first rides on Shockwave and Anaconda (Kings Dominon) and those rides when they were open moved like butter. Now it takes some courage to ride them knowing the fact that a headache can occur I have to deal with for the entire day. All coasters age, some worse then others but B&M and Intamin build there rides to stay solid and in line. Thank god for the Swiss engineers who came up with all the great rides across the world.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 8:11 PM

Priming the curve. Railroads have done this for over a century. It seems by leading out the oposite direction as the upcoming curve helps the train negotiate it easier. One thing that greatly advances B&M train steerablity is it's completly independent articulated cars with most trains having a steer truck completly independent from the rest of the train. Kinda like the steer wheels on old steam locomotives that helped a train start the curve rather than the road wheels just quickly jarring into the curve.

Chuck, who has discussed this topic before with people way smarter than I am, But can see the interest in the topic.

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Charles Nungester.
Is it about coasters or friends? I say both!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 6:17 AM

Peabody said: Ever ridden a Togo?

Yes, what's your point? ;)
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TOGO!
Vekoma!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 6:37 AM
While the solid tracking helps a lot on B&M's, the real objective that provides the smoothness is to minimize accelerations at head level. The constant tracking helps, but B&M's beautifully designed transitions are the real key. They are designed so the train rotates around your head.
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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 12:44 PM
Kind of off-topic, but last night I learned the pronounciation is Bah-lih-ger (not Bow-li-ger) and Mah-be-ard (not Mah-bill-ard). Wierd.

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"The password is, 'Nice rack,', and I'll reply 'I forgot my bra,'."
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Sworn Whizzer hater because it took Shockwave down

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 4:08 PM
Morgans have inside guide wheels and they seem just as smoother as Intamins to me.

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A rollercoaster? What's that?

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 4:29 PM

I've noticed on B&M's, that if you've ever looked at the back of the cars and looked at the wheels, you'll find that the wheels are connected by a bar that keeps the wheels pointed in the same angle at all times. There is a similar system used on the Vekoma Flyers, which I believe keep them slightly smoother.http://club.coasterbuzz.com/features/sfo/gallery/

look at the pics of BKF (car back)

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*** This post was edited by B&M fan on 10/2/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by B&M fan on 10/2/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by B&M fan on 10/2/2002. ***

*** This post was edited by B&M fan on 10/2/2002. ***

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 4:37 PM
Sorry I edited so much, I couldn't get the URL to work.

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 5:22 PM

B&M does use changes in direction mainly i think for surprises...

take yourself through a ride on any Batman:the Ride clone. the zero-g roll goes one way (right on most all except SFStl, Vampire, a few others)... then the following turn goes the other... catches you off guard...

on the other hand, some coasters designed for fluidity, like AIR, will do the opposite, as you can see in this pic: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1458.htm?Picture=4

perhaps this is part of why B:TR is far more "forceful" than AIR at times.

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 5:29 PM

Since no one wants to touch Togo, I'll just add this comment: There slogan is "Hey, We hurt people". Don't you find this odd?

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