I went on Superman Ultimate Flight at SFGAm saturday and it was awsome! I know it's a B&M flyer, but there are also Vekoma Flyers too. Besides how the trains get into flying position what is the difference between Vekoma and B&M flyers, and what do you guys think about them.
Well, I like X-Flight (one of the Vekoma Flying Dutchman Twins). It was very smooth and enjoyable. The 1/2 turn to the prone position is the only really noticable difference between B&M's and Vekomas, well, that and the track style. The way they are engineered is different also. X-Flight started out life with 3 trains, then went to 2, and now, atleast when I was there, 1. Only 1 of 2 stations were working. I haven't heard about all thos problems about B&M's. I've never ridden a B&M Flyer, so I can't compare them. I can tell you that Vekomas are very smooth, but have some engineering flaws.
------------------ My mind works in strange ways. Yeah with a chain driven lift hill and gravity.
B&M flyers are a much better ride, the Vekoma ones are getting rougher as they age. That along with the few problems they've had make the Vekoma version inferior to the B&M version. The seats for both coasters are very comfortable, but I think B&M's are just a little better.
I've been on X-Flight, Batwing, SUF @ SFGAm and SUF @ SFGAdv.
------------------ This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time.
If B&M could take the Vekoma layout, ditch the loop and insert their pretzel loop, you'd have a winner IMHO. Taken as they are I prefer B&M for smoothness and feeling of flight and Vekoma for the more exciting layout [even though too much time is spent on top of the rail instead of below].
------------------ A random Mooshter's Dawntionary listing: Flatulence [n.] - the emergency vehicle that picks you up after you're run over by a steamroller.
B&M's take on the flyer, at least the existing layouts, are really just kiddie rides after the pretzel loop. X-Flight, on the other hand spends too much time on top of the rail, defeating the purpose of a flying coaster, as Moosh said. I think B&M and Vekoma are about equal when it comes to flyers. Each has their pros, and cons. That said, I'm not too fond of the existing flyers. The concept of flying just sounds cooler than it feels. ------------------ Never Has Gravity Been So Uplifting.
*** This post was edited by BullGuy 6/30/2003 5:33:33 PM ***
The B&M restraints are the most comfortable. Vekoma's restraints seemed awkward, whereas B&M's seem very natural.
As for the ride itself, I did not get much out of X-Flight's layout. It suffers from the same thing the second half of S:UF does: lack of speed makes the elements rather boring. I wasn't impressed with the loop on X-Flight, so by far, the distinguishing factor for me is B&M's pretzel loop.
Layout aside, the B&M flyers are undoubtedly engineered much, much better. Ever look at the back of a Vekoma flying coaster train and see all that computer work? Ever wonder why the rides run one station, and one train, most of the time? B&M thought it all out better.
Edit: ...and if you haven't been on a Vekoma version yet this year, you'll probably be surprised with the roughness, at least on Stealth or X-Flight... /Edit.
And yes, the layouts for both are a little tame, and also, pretty much the same. To get a B&M flying coaster, just move the Vekoma version's loop to the beginning, and shift everything else between the loop and the twists.
But there has to be a reason for this. I think that if more could be done with the flying coaster (more inversions, forces, etc.), it would have already. It only took 2 years for the inverted coaster to turn from B:TR into Raptor, so next year *may* prove big for the flying coaster if someone's ordered a big version. But who knows?
-Matt, who also acknowledges that it took the standup coaster 6 years to evolve from Iron Wolf to Mantis...
------------------ "Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation." - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap http://www.loopscrew.com *** This post was edited by I-Nar 6/30/2003 5:51:27 PM ***
i have been on both X-Flight And SUF(SFgram)....and i like X-flight's layout and ride experience alot more than SUF....SUF was rather boring after the Pretzel loop(which was extreme)........but as far as which one is better..Vekoma got it right on.....and the answer to why Vekoma spends more time ontop of the track is because its called a laydown coaster.
The difference between them: one is B&M the other is Vekoma.....thats how everyone views them..when rating and tellin which one is better...IMO
I would probably prefer the Vekoma for *my* park, where hardcore enthusiasts ride all day and long into the night....the serious problems being uptime and capacity...not as comfy as the B&M, but way, WAY better layouts....I also think the amount of time spent *above the rails* reduces some of the discomfort from staying in the prone position *hanging* against the restraints...
P.S. Females *do* seem to have a harder time with the Vekoma "vest" than with the B&M restraints...;) ------------------ It seems today, that all you see, are violins in movies, and sax on TV....
Chitown said: Anyone here been on "AIR" at Alton Towers?
Yup. I've been on 2 of the Vekoma's (X-Flight, Batwing), 2 of the B&M Supermen (SFoG, SFGAm), and Air.
In many ways, Air is my favorite of the bunch. It's not as intense as the others, but it does more. I think of them all, it best captures the feeling of flight. The Superman coasters do have the amazing pretzel loop, while the Vekoma ones just don't to much for me.
I'll be riding SFEG's Flying Coaster in about a month, but I don't think it'll compare favorably to either B&M OR Vekoma's take. :)
------------------ --Greg, aka Oat Boy My page "Another visitor. Stay a while. Stay FOREVER!" *** This post was edited by GregLeg 6/30/2003 8:46:20 PM ***
I'm not a huge fan of the flying coaster concept. The first time I rode X-Flight on media day, I thought the ride was really uncomfortable when the seats reclined. When your laying on your back in the station with your feet elevated too long, all the blood rushes to your head which I found very uncomfortable. Also, like the above posts state, the layouts are pretty tame. I think the engineers are afraid of making the rides too extreme. Because you are trying to hold your head up(back) in a very un-natural position, you have to be careful about stresses on the riders necks. Now I haven't ridden any of B&M's versions yet, but I've heard similar reports about their rides. Although the loading process is much better than Vekoma, the ride dynamics themselves aren't all that much improved with B&M's version. Over-all I'd say that it's a novel idea on paper that really doesn't work well with the design of the human body. If I want to fly like Superman, I'll get in the front seat of my favorite woodie and lean a little forward sticking my arms straight out in front of me. It's much more comfortable and thrilling.
I once spent over 2 hours talking to John Allen by phone when I was younger. He had a lot to say and I had plenty to ask. Very enlightening experience. *** This post was edited by Thrillerman 6/30/2003 9:26:55 PM ***
I have ridden S:UF at OG and GAM along with X-Flight and Batwing and frankly the Vekomas are trash in comparison. The restarints are horrendous, it takes turns anythign but gracefully, the inlines are horribly uncomfortable and I feel as if I could fall out at any moment, oh did I mention the incesent rattling?
The only Saving graces of the dutchman are the Horeshoe and Helix.
If you made one of the horseshoes more prounounced on S:UF alnd added a full helix at teh end of the ride before the inline youw oudl have the perfect flyer IMO.
The Beemers are superior in every way, the seat design really makes the ride IMO as I dread even coming near the Vekoma models as frankly they scare the poo out of me. The pretzel loop is right up there with the entrance to Twisters helix, SFA S:Ros 3rd Hill, and Legends double down as my favorite ride elements.
I actually like the Vekoma's more. The pretzel is quite impressive, but the rest of the B&M layout is sleep inducing. The twists on the Vekomas are faster and pack more punch and the 1/2 twist at the top is a much better way to enter the flying position than B&M's lift in the station.
Or course reliability and capacity wise, S:UF's are way way above the vekomas.
------------------ Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator "It's not a Toomer" - Arnold Schwartzenkoph "Those who know don't talk and those who talk don't know." -Jeff
The biggest problem with the Vekomas is the restraints. They seemed to over-think the system, and made it too complicated for many people to understand. The B&M restraints are very similar to an invert, so more people understand the concept, which speeds up the load time. The other problem with the Vekoma restraints is the softness. They have too much give, which contributes to the roughness.
The problem with the B&M's was already mentioned; after the pretzel loop, they layouts are very tame. There's potential with the B&M's once they break away from the clones.
I have only ridden X-Flight at SFWoA but I thought it was overrated because it only "flies" for one hill and then turns over again during the horseshoe turn, again for the loop, and yet again for the in line twists. There is very little time actually spent flying. The thing that I think is really dissappointing about both Vekoma and B&M flyers is that they all have the same designs as the original models. For example Stelth, X-Flight, and Batwing are all exaxtly the same thing. At least with inverted coasters, there were different track designs for each new coaster. Someone has to build a flying coaster that is totally different from the ones we have now. Whoever is the first to start building different track designs for each coaster will get my vote for the better flying coaster company.
------------------ Riding on top of the world with Cedar Point
I've been on two Vekomas (Stealth & Batwing), and two B&M's (Air & SFoG's Superman) and honestly I think I would call it a draw at this point. In my mind neither company has built a ride that would be the ultimate flying coaster. Each ride built so far has good points and drawbacks and none totally blow me away.
I like Stealth's layout the best I think. But like all the others, it is too short. The thing I really like is that there are some intense forces on the bottom of each drop that the Beemers just don't have. And I like the flip over at the top of the lift. It's more shocking that way. The B&M's while more efficent, get you used to the flying position before you even leave the station so it just seems milder to me.
But the B&Ms have some good points too. The Superman pretzel loop is fun and Air has a real powerful turn that you take on your back that I like quite a bit.
But I am still waiting for a ride that pulls all these elements together, is longer, and takes better advantage of the flying position. Repeated dives towards water would be fun and I would love to see one of these run through a hillside forest a la Boulderdash. I think that would be incrediable.
I've been on the 3 SUF's, and the 3 Vekoma flyers and IMO the B&M's definitely have the advantage. I do enjoy afew of the Vekoma elements (like the transition to flying), but they ride terrible and aren't as much fun as the B&M versions.
I regret missing ECO everyday :( ------------------ Corey "This is America! We speak English not jive!"