B&M hyper coaster restraint question

What would happen if something went wrong with the lap bars (came loose or undone) on Nitro, Apollo's Chariot, or Raging Bull? Since there is no back-up restraint system such as seat belts, would a person be able to survive such a predicament? The forces are pretty strong on those coasters especially on RB. So, I was wondering how someone could hold on if worse came to worse.

CoasterLisa *** Edited 1/10/2006 2:31:35 AM UTC by Lisa Zigweid***

I'm sure Rideman will correct me if I'm wrong but I am under the impression that most coasters are designed so that even an unrestrained person, if they remained in a sitting position and held on to the grab bar, would not be thrown from the ride. They might come off the seat an inch or two and be pretty scared tho! ;)

Remember when coasters didn't have seatbelts? How many people who weren't horseing around got thrown out due to the retraint? I can't think of any I remember in a permenant park.

They did use to have seatbelts (or at least Nitro did), but they got rid of them for some reason. You can see a picture here:

http://www.coastergallery.com/1999/GA67.html

I sorry but these B&M are not the old woodies. If that lap bar snaps forward and your holding on pulls you forward your momentum is going to carry you out of that seat and you are not going to land back down in that seat. I'm sorry that rider would be dead, no ifs, ands or buts in my mind.

No Kidding Peabody. Hell, most Arrow loopers still don't.

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Mamoosh said:
. . . . . if they remained in a sitting position and held on to the grab bar, would not be thrown from the ride. They might come off the seat an inch or two and be pretty scared tho! ;)

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I guess this hypothesis does not apply to the intamin hypers.

The "seatbelts" on Nitro wern't intended as a rider restraint. They were simply to ensure that the bar was down to a secure level. I'm fairly positive that the B&M restraints are redundant, so that one locking device can fail, and the bar would not come up. The chances of the actual lap bar failing are slim to none, so the only real concern is the lock.

larrygator, most old wooden coaster produce much more force than many of these B&Ms. I would say everything would work out ok. :)

I guess this hypothesis does not apply to the intamin hypers.

I assume you're referring to the death on SFNE's Superman. Reports were that the rider was disabled and unable to hold himself upright.

sorry but these B&M are not the old woodies. If that lap bar snaps forward and your holding on pulls you forward your momentum is going to carry you out of that seat and you are not going to land back down in that seat. I'm sorry that rider would be dead, no ifs, ands or buts in my mind.

You're right, they're not the old woodies. Those old woodies were MUCH more intense as they did not have autocad design software to calculate every single g-force before the ride even takes a single rider.

Not to mention the design of B&M speed coaster train seats takes this very type of incident into consideration. Why do you think the seats are reclined so much?

You're overreacting.

The fact of the matter is, the B&M hypers I've ridden (Apollo's Chariot and Raging Bull) don't produce forces that will throw you from the seat. In the unlikely event that all four pawls fail and the lap bar pops open during the ride, just don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Actually, most B&M coasters are designed so the "default" position on the restraints is the "down" position. Without every restraint being in this position, the train is not allowed to leave the station.

Also, the restraints are made in a way that it is impossible for it to fail, because it is "at rest" in its default position (at rest meaning no tension).

Also, they are designed so that it would take an insane amount of force for it to fail, meaning, someone over 1000 pounds. And, someone over 1000 pounds would not even be able to lower the restraint enough to lock.

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larrygator said:
I sorry but these B&M are not the old woodies.

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Exactly. But your point backfired. Most old woodies are WAY more intense than any B&M. Old B&Ms, Intamins, Arrows, Schwarzkopf, Vekoma, etc NEVER had belts. Again, I'll say it...how many folks got tossed who weren't screwing around?

Personally I don't care about having them...it just potentially makes is safer.

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Mamoosh said:Why do you think the seats are reclined so much?

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They are reclined that way to make it harder/impossible for people to stand up.

JC

^ LOL, because if you stay in your SEAT, you stay IN your seat... ;)

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RideMan said:
The fact of the matter is, the B&M hypers I've ridden (Apollo's Chariot and Raging Bull) don't produce forces that will throw you from the seat. In the unlikely event that all four pawls fail and the lap bar pops open during the ride, just don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine.

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FOUR...that's built in redundancy... ;)

Shoot, do something SMART and pull your restraint closed...it will re-latch (or at least the one Beemer that unclicked on me re-locked just fine). Of course, that was an invert, not a hyper...

I have had a Nitro restraint go a click loose mid course and pulled it back and it relocked and stapled me in the seat. Imagine that, stapling yourself instead of a ride op doing it? So as Gator said it's not anything to be scared of if it happens.

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Peabody said:

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larrygator said:
I sorry but these B&M are not the old woodies.

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Exactly. But your point backfired. Most old woodies are WAY more intense than any B&M. Old B&Ms, Intamins, Arrows, Schwarzkopf, Vekoma, etc NEVER had belts. Again, I'll say it...how many folks got tossed who weren't screwing around?

Personally I don't care about having them...it just potentially makes is safer.

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I wouldn't say my point backfired.

I never said the old woodies weren't more forceful. I said if the restraints on the B&Ms opened they would be too far away the rider to hold on to and stay in seat at the same time. A buzz bar flys open on a old woodie you still have the potential to reach and hold on to the bar and also brace your feet against the front of the car.

In the end, I wouldn't care to ride any old woodie or B&M without restraints! *** Edited 1/11/2006 1:02:02 AM UTC by larrygator***

That is true. Thankfully those B&M restrainst seem so heavy, they'd probably not get too far.

AS previously stated there's nothing to worry about. Although these harnesses look very simple, there's actually a lot more to them than you would think. These harnesses have back up after back up. There are systems that prevent the harnesses from opening once it has dispathc from the station, regardless of force applied, as the human cannot apply ebough force to pop it open anywho. And if the harnesses are checked daily, how they should be by maintenance, then nothing will go wrong.

I'm glad someone addressed this question. I've often felt unsecure with these lapbars (and yes, I know what my screen name is). But, I have to say it adds to the thrill, if you will, of the ride. It's funny that a friend of mine and I had our hands up in the ride photo, and the girls on either side of us had a death grip on the handles. That picture cracks me up everytime I look at it.

I'm no expert on the matter, but I would think there would be some potential for a rider falling out on Nitro during the second hill which turns sharply to the left. There's also the back horseshoe element that banks pretty sharply. [note: I've forgotten which is the Hammerhead, I believe it's the 2nd hill]

You may say that the reclined seat is for safety, but I thought it was so you can claim to your friends that you rode a Lazy-Boy on wheels:)