# B&M Drops

Thursday, October 16, 2003 3:52 PM
When it's said that Raging Bull has a 208 foot drop or Kraken has a 144 foot drop... is that from the very top of the lift, or is is the height of the "dip" at the top excluded? Also, how far does the "dip" drop you?

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Raging Bull is best when you're first. [6/16/03]

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:01 PM
From the top before the dip, the dip is about 15 ft unless im wrong.
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Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:07 PM
The drop is the change in height from the station to the highest point. (which was discussed in great detail some time ago)

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:21 PM
That's a physical impossibility in the case of Raging Bull... it's only 202 feet tall to begin with, and the station looks to be at least 25-35 feet off the ground... 25 + 208 != 202

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Raging Bull is best when you're first. [6/16/03]

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:40 PM
Don't forget there is also the dip out of the station and Raging Bull does have a tunnel so it goes below ground level.
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Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:47 PM
Or the drop itself (height measured from the drop's tallest point to its lowest) is just measured...
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Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:09 PM
If drop height is determined by the change in height from the station to the heighest point, then that makes Apollo's Chariot drop nowhere near 210ft.

Also, I doubt the 'dip' is 15ft. Having ridden Apollo's Chariot many times, I would have to say the dip is somewhere between 5 and 10ft. But at the same time, that doesnt mean other B&M dips arent of different heights.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 5:11 PM
I haven't seen one that is more than about 5-8 feet.
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Thursday, October 16, 2003 7:01 PM
The height of the highest point is how tall the coaster is, the drop on Raging is 208 ft. from after the predrop.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:28 PM

Matt H. said:

Also, I doubt the 'dip' is 15ft. Having ridden Apollo's Chariot many times, I would have to say the dip is somewhere between 5 and 10ft. But at the same time, that doesnt mean other B&M dips arent of different heights.

True, they may vary on individual coasters, but I can gauranteed that none of them come close to being greater than 10 feet (the dip). 15 feet is just ridiculous. I don't know how that person came up with that.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:49 PM
If it's 5 feet I would be suprised.

Regardless, the height of a coaster is the distance from its highest point straight down to the ground.

The drop of a coaster is the distance from it's highest point to the bottom of the first drop.

Nitro is 230 feet tall but has a 215 foot drop for example.

The dip would count for the height of a coaster, but not the drop.

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If I was part of a coaster, I would be an upstop pad on an Arrow Mine Train.

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Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:12 PM
I was on RB once when someone sitting next to me was yelling out the height of the drops. Not saying that this is a reliable source or anything, but he said the 'dip' was an 8 foot drop.
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Friday, October 17, 2003 4:00 AM
Remember any of the other heights, by any chance?

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Raging Bull is best when you're first. [6/16/03]

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:56 AM
Trying to remember 1998 press release... [scratching head]... I think the second drop was around 144 feet, and the third around 127. I could be off, though.

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Colin D.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 7:16 AM
The only reasonable definition of drop height would be the difference in elevation from the drop's highest point (top of lift for RB) to the drop's lowest point (inside the tunnel).

Also, why does B&M include that dip even on coasters like Raging Bull? I've never been able to think of a good reason for it. Why not just do a straight drop off? That would be more exciting.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 7:27 AM
Rollerhammer - while there isn't any official governing body concerning drop measurement, I believe drops are typically measured from the highest point of the drop to the lowest, meaning that pre-drop dips aren't included. You get this impression looking at height and drop comparisons for Arrow loopers, most of which featured a pre-drop dip.

I can't vouch for Walter and Claude, but I'm pretty sure they added pre-drop dips on RB and AC to get the train completely off the lift before dropping, and/or to give the train more speed off the drop. If you ask me, more speed off the drop is more exciting than a slower, straight drop off.

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Colin D.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 8:12 AM
There are several reasons that B&M does this. The technical reasons are to prevent stress on the chains and anit-rollbacks. The reason its done on a lot of inverts and other coasters is to add excitement and the predrop turns are to conserve space.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 9:45 AM
If I was in charge of publicity fro a new B&M, I would claim the whole height, from the top of the lift to the very bottom of the drop, as the drop height. It's not really incorrect (as at least part of the train is dropping throughout), and it's being true to the spirit of things, since riders accelerate the whole time. Of course, the main reason would be to make the drop seem as large as possible.

Given this, I've always assumed that drop height includes the pre-drop. Does anyone have anyting to directly counter this assumption?

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:40 AM
It's not exactly proof, but looking at the listed height vs. drop statistics for various Arrow loopers that include pre-drops, you get the sense that pre-drops aren't included. Same goes for a few of the B&M loopers.

The Demon at SFGAm

Vortex at PKI

The Corkscrew at Silverwood

Kraken at Sea World

Batman: KF at SFWOA

And, yes, I'd agree that if I were working PR for a park, I'd bend the facts as much as possible to make the ride sound more impressive. But, usually, parks tend to emphasize just plain height, and not drops.
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Colin D.
*** This post was edited by Olsor 10/17/2003 3:42:53 PM ***

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Friday, October 17, 2003 11:58 AM

Matt H. said:
If drop height is determined by the change in height from the station to the heighest point, then that makes Apollo's Chariot drop nowhere near 210ft.

Also, I doubt the 'dip' is 15ft. Having ridden Apollo's Chariot many times, I would have to say the dip is somewhere between 5 and 10ft. But at the same time, that doesnt mean other B&M dips arent of different heights.

The lift hill on Apollo is 170 ft. Since it goes down into that huge ravine it makes the drop 210 ft.

I agree, the dip is more like 5ft.

Corey

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